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January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013

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January 9, 1995

A Fleet in Decay: A special report.; New York's Bus Service Worsens With Little Help on the Horizon
After 20 years of losing riders, New York City's bus system has sharply deteriorated in quality because the fleet has aged, buses are wearing out and the two manufacturers under contract to provide new machines have failed to deliver, transit officials say.

More than 45 percent of the 3,600 buses in the fleet have now outlived their useful life and should be replaced, officials say. Chronic parts shortages keep buses sidelined for weeks.

At the same time, labor strife and sabotage have risen in depots as managers have pressed mechanics to work faster to keep the fleet running. On some lines, particularly in Manhattan and the Bronx, there are not enough buses in good working order to handle the morning rush hour.

For riders, these problems have caused longer waits between buses on some lines or occasional disruptions in service. In interviews, several riders also complained that the buses that do run are often bunched up together, leading to 15-minute gaps in service.

"There seems to be fewer buses every week, every month," said Verna Sabelle, as she shivered against the 26-degree weather last week waiting for the M1 bus on Fifth Avenue. "There are not as many buses as there were a few years ago. And they aren't programmed properly. I see no reason for four or five buses coming at once."

The Transit Authority says the depots still put 98 percent of the required buses on the street most mornings. Once on the road, however, more buses are breaking down. The average distance buses travel between breakdowns has fallen 9 percent in the last year.

A review of logs from a typical week in early December shows that about 8 percent of buses that left depots in Manhattan and 7 percent of Bronx buses experienced mechanical problems once on the road. Those numbers were in sharp contrast to Brooklyn, where about 4 percent broke down, or Queens, where only 1.3 percent had trouble.

The result is fewer buses on the streets. A recent Transit Authority survey of 40 heavily traveled lines suggested that on some lines in Manhattan and the Bronx as many as 1 out of 10 buses did not arrive. The problem worsened during the evening.

"The general view is that the bus service stinks," said Gene Russianoff, a lawyer for the Straphangers Campaign, a mass transit advocacy group. "The subways are improving and the buses are on a downward spiral."

With service declining, the Transit Authority president, Alan F. Kiepper, has shaken up the management of the bus department. The vice president for buses, Velva Edwards, resigned under pressure two weeks ago.

Ms. Edward's resignation came just 18 months after Mr. Kiepper brought in two operational experts from the subway system, Charles Monheim and Lars Updale, to whip the management of the depots into shape. Since then, three of the five borough managers have been replaced along with several of the 19 depot managers. Mr. Monheim now has been named the acting vice president in charge of buses.

"It's clear the department of buses is not performing at the level that we want it to," Mr. Kiepper said. "We've had significant problems in maintenance. There are management problems as well. I'm not laying it all at the feet of the union."

Labor and management have blamed each other for the slide in service. Managers complain that the union exerts too much control over work in some shops through its control of overtime and by enforcing work rules, and say efficient workers are harassed.

Managers also charge that repairs take too long. For instance, a transmission change takes about 42 hours in most city bus depots, compared with 22 hours in private companies.

This is especially true, transit officials say, in Manhattan and Bronx depots that used to belong to private bus lines before the authority took them over in 1962. The division of the Transport Workers Union that controls those shops has different work rules than Queens and Brooklyn mechanics follow.

"We have capable mechanics," Mr. Monheim said. "The issue is whether they are motivated to give their best effort or whether they feel compelled to operate at half speed or less."

Union leaders, on the other hand, blame management for failing to replenish the fleet with new buses. They also say they lack the proper tools and parts to maintain the older buses and complain that many depots are in abysmal condition. Even two newly constructed depots have design flaws that have made them almost unbearable on hot days.

To union leaders, the recent management efforts to crack down on mechanics has only hurt morale, resulting in lower productivity.

"They are just trying to mandate the times on the jobs without negotiating and that's causing a lot of animosity," said James Hood, vice president of the Transit Workers Union for the Manhattan and Bronx bus services. "They purposely brought in certain types of managers with the idea of breaking the union. Once they did that, the union members got their backs up."


Troubled Contractors A Failure To Deliver
Labor disputes aside, the major reason bus riders are waiting longer at stops is that transit officials made a serious miscalculation when they went to buy new buses in 1989, 1992 and 1993.

The two manufacturers under contract with the Transit Authority to build buses -- the Transportation Manufacturing Corporation of Roswell, N.M., and Bus Industries of America of Oriskany, N.Y. -- are both in financial trouble and have failed to deliver on contracts, transit officials said.

Most of the fleet was built by T.M.C. in the early 1980's, back when it was a General Motors subsidiary. Since then, the company has shown steady losses and has been sold three times.

In 1989, T.M.C. was the only company whose products had passed a rigorous 10-month road test, qualifying the company to make buses for New York, transit officials said. But in 1992 and 1993, the authority decided to give most of the new orders to Bus Industries of America, a New York State subsidiary of Ontario Bus Industries in Canada. The company makes Orion buses, which also passed the test.

Although the decision seemed good for the state economy, Bus Industries of America took a financial nose dive in 1993 and the company is now teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. As a result, about 367 new buses that were supposed to arrive in the fall of 1993 were six months late, and another 334 buses that were to be delivered this year have not arrived.

To make matters worse, the buses that have been delivered have developed mechanical problems. The wheelchair lifts on 167 T.M.C. buses bought in 1992 were defective, and have had to be sent back for repairs. The rear-door switches on about 70 of the Orion buses were also faulty.

Transit officials say they had no choice but to contract with T.M.C. and Bus Industries of America because they were the only two companies who had agreed to its road test.

Indeed, few companies want to jump through New York's hoops at a time when the entire industry is in turmoil. Many are unwilling to build buses tough enough to last 12 years on the city's cratered streets.

"If you do business with New York, you go broke," said Dennis Howard, the president of the Gillig Corporation in Lafayette, Calif., a bus maker that has stayed out of the city's market.

Because of the trouble with the contracts, officials said the authority will not require a road test this year. Indeed, transit officials intend to buy about 50 buses from the Flxible Corporation, of Delaware, Ohio, which used to be owned by the Grumman Corporation -- a company essentially frozen out of the New York City market in the early 1980's after a shipment of their buses turned out to be poorly designed.

Meanwhile, the old T.M.C. buses are breaking down more often. More and more buses need new frames, engines, transmissions and differential gears, managers and mechanics said. There are 260 buses waiting for major repairs and at least 80 of those will require structural work.

"The reality is that we have a fleet that should have been replaced and has not been," said Theodore Basta, the Manhattan general manager of the Transit Authority.

With no new bus suppliers in sight, the authority plans to spend $11.4 million this year to rebuild 410 T.M.C. buses that were scheduled to be retired, Mr. Updale said. Labor Relations Charges And Reprisals

The union's resistance to work-rule changes has exacerbated the service problems, transit officials say.

Labor tensions rose last year after Mr. Monheim took over and began trying to change some longstanding work practices.

To begin with, Mr. Monheim ended the practice in which depots with bad records fixing buses were able to cover their deficiencies by borrowing buses from better-performing depots.

Mr. Monheim insisted each depot rise or fall on its own. "The policy was we were not going to throw overtime at depots that aren't doing the work," Mr. Monheim said.

Under the previous system, most mechanics expected to receive at least three eight-hour overtime shifts a week, which were doled out by the union leader in the shop, several managers said.

"The union to a great extent ran these shops," said Sonia Maisonet, the Bronx general manager. "If the overtime was not there, they would create the overtime through vandalism, low productivity and high absenteeism."

Union leaders say management's attempts to speed work are laughable since there are still constant shortages of parts and tools. At the Hudson Pier Depot, in Chelsea, for example, 30 mechanics share three air-driven wrenches. And a check of last month's supplies reveals that the Coliseum Depot, in the Bronx, was completely out of 383 different parts.

"If they want to talk industrial standards, they better come up with better conditions," said James Whelan, a union official.

Labor relations in many depots have deteriorated into a game of charge and countercharge. The union has responded to attempts to increase productivity by accusing management of putting unsafe buses on the road and endangering riders to improve performance statistics. Management has accused the union of sabotaging buses and slowing down work to get more overtime.

Saboteurs have struck several times in the last year. In April last year, someone stuffed paper debris in the gas tanks of 28 buses at the 100th Street Depot in Harlem. On Oct. 20, an assistant shop steward was crushed to death at the Fresh Ponds Depot in Queens while trying to slash the air bags in the suspension system of a bus, the transit police said. The union vice chairman in the shop had been suspended two days earlier after fighting with a manager over work rules.

A few days later, someone shorted out the entire electrical systems of three buses in the Amsterdam Depot in Harlem. In early November, at least three buses had their fuel lines punctured at the Hudson Pier Depot a day after a manager had forced mechanics to pick up garbage around a trash compactor, and, on Thanksgiving evening, someone put glue in the fare boxes of about 18 buses at the 100th Street Depot, crippling morning service.

The tensions reached an apex at the Coliseum Depot last summer. A new manager who tried to change the overtime system met with stiff resistance. His office was broken into and a bullet was left on his seat. Later, a union official dismantled a surveillance camera installed after the incident and was suspended for 60 days.

Union officials deny the members are responsible for the sabotage and suggest managers may be doing it to build support for union busting. But managers scoff at that theory, and charge union members are to blame. "Here are demonstrable instances of either extreme actions of God or somebody did something," Mr. Basta said.

So far the vandalism has only disrupted service temporarily on isolated days. As a practical matter, however, the threat of sabotage intimidates managers from pushing the union too hard. Without labor peace, depot managers acknowledge it is impossible for them to get enough buses on the street.

Edward Matalevich, the manager of the Manhattanville Depot in Harlem, summed up his delicate relationship with the union this way: "Technically, the union has no control over the shop. But realistically, they do. They can always get the flu. If you come off full force, like dynamite, as strong as you are, they will throw up a resistance."

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/09/nyregion/fleet-decay-special-report-new-york-s-bus-service-worsens-with-little-help.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

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(285044)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by LRG5784 on Tue Oct 1 15:50:30 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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Very interesting article, it's a shame that the people whom we rely on to keep the buses moving (the mechanics, not the drivers) slack off and leave buses OOS for months. If the mechanics can't fix the buses, the drivers can't take them out for service which means they don't work (and still get paid for it), and if the drivers aren't on the road, passengers aren't being picked up and no revenue is being collected. Then service gets cut due to the de-facto "unreliable" service, and it gets worse and worse.

The chain eventually needs to be broken.

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(285045)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by David on Tue Oct 1 15:51:00 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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The 50 Flxibles mentioned in the article became Orion Vs 631-680 when Flxible went belly-up.


David

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(285054)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by TCO on Tue Oct 1 17:31:38 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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("If you do business with New York, you go broke," said Dennis Howard, the president of the Gillig Corporation in Lafayette, Calif., a bus maker that has stayed out of the city's market.)

Good Im glad Gillig Corporation stayed out of New York City.

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(285056)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 18:09:36 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by TCO on Tue Oct 1 17:31:38 2013.

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10 years later...

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(285061)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by CJ on Tue Oct 1 18:53:40 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by TCO on Tue Oct 1 17:31:38 2013.

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Technically they didn't stay out of New York. Long Island Bus bought a number of Phantoms in both 35 and 40 foot versions. I saw them in 2000 in Jamaica while on vacation and was shocked to see those particular buses in New York.

I was use to seeing them on a daily bases in Florida running side by side with Orion Vs, Flxibles, and Neoplans.

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(285062)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 19:06:33 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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Except for a blitz or two what were the oldest buses in the fleet back then? The 1981 RTS? They needed to be retired after 14 years? I suppose the 1959 new looks lasted about 14 years as well. But I wonder if new looks , GM and Flx, were in such condition mechanically. Im sure they may have looked like hell at times but Im sure they were reliable. TMC made the 1981s and 82s? I thought they were still GM in Detroit up until about 1986.

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(285067)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Oct 1 20:59:37 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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Wow. I didn't know that it was THAT bad! Geez! Buses getting vandalized like that? Ugh... Well, they still had the Fishbowls running back then, but they were about to be phased out for good!

If I recall correctly, the MTA slashed some service, later that year, in September. One of the cuts was the elimination of the then-KB depot Bx24 route, when it used to run from Fordham Plaza, to West 256th Street & Mosholu Avenue. I rode them a few times, only to find a few passengers aboard. Never packed.

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(285069)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by CJ on Tue Oct 1 21:27:24 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 19:06:33 2013.

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The 1959 New Looks made it into the early 1980s before the Grummans and RTS replaced them. By that point they were over 20+ years old.

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(285070)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 21:45:21 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by CJ on Tue Oct 1 21:27:24 2013.

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I don't think so they were replaced in 1973-74. They weren't on the roster in 1976 that was posted here a few years back. 100 was retired by '73 and it wasn't even supposed to be the preserved bus.

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(285071)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 21:47:43 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 21:45:21 2013.

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I'm certainly not arguing with you but from what I've heard the 5301 group didn't last as long as 5303s and certainly 5305s in NYC both private and city. I can be proven wrong.

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(285073)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 1 22:17:28 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 19:06:33 2013.

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What about the 1977 Flxible New Looks? A few of them may have been in storage.

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(285074)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 1 22:19:02 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Oct 1 20:59:37 2013.

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Was the impetus for the cuts budget problems, or lack of buses?

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(285080)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 22:55:57 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 1 22:17:28 2013.

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I doubt it. I recall them being of the road mostly by the summer of '92 and stored at Gleason and on Flatbush Ave next to Highway 2 by the entrance to the westbound belt. Maybe a few in storage but certainly not on the road and not a source of angst for buying new buses.

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(285081)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Oct 1 23:14:36 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 1 22:19:02 2013.

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Not 100% sure. From what I heard, the MTA had it's government funding cut down, affecting bus & subway service. Any service that was used the least, got cut. The old Bx24 was eliminated due to low ridership, go figure.

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(285107)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by TCO on Wed Oct 2 14:06:08 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 18:09:36 2013.

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Yeah that was 8 years ago came out from MCH Depot.

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(285111)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by TCO on Wed Oct 2 14:16:26 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by CJ on Tue Oct 1 18:53:40 2013.

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(I was use to seeing them on a daily bases in Florida running side by side with Orion Vs, Flxibles, and Neoplans.)

All three manufacturer no longer making buses and Flxibles is one of the best and other two I hate it also don't forget the RTS.

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(285114)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by CJ on Wed Oct 2 14:55:13 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by TCO on Wed Oct 2 14:16:26 2013.

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Yeah. By 2000 the Flxibles were running out their last miles. The Neoplans were in the reserve fleet by 2001 with the arrival of the trouble plagued 2001 Gilligs.

Up until then were regularly used in service in 2000. The Neoplans were pretty fast for the most part and had a distinctive sound to them. The Gilligs were an instant success for Lynx when 201 went into service on December 21st, 1994.

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(285116)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by busdude2 on Wed Oct 2 15:05:14 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 18:09:36 2013.

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Yes but that was to test the propulsion system not the bus.

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(285117)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Gold_12th on Wed Oct 2 15:06:20 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by busdude2 on Wed Oct 2 15:05:14 2013.

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it still is a bus. 10 years later.

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(285121)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by TCO on Wed Oct 2 17:21:26 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by CJ on Wed Oct 2 14:55:13 2013.

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I heard the FDOT contract with gilligs corp is up by end of this year and not sure if they want to renew the contract. We (HART) just got 12 more Gilligs Buses with clean diesel and before end of 2014 we will be getting 20 CNG buses but we don't know if they going for gilligs or other company.

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(285125)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by CJ on Wed Oct 2 18:51:03 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by TCO on Wed Oct 2 17:21:26 2013.

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It is set to expire at around December of this year. Don't know if Gillig will renew it, although if they want to keep Florida, they will. This month a Xcelsior demo is visiting us.

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(285161)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 3 02:08:59 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Oct 1 20:59:37 2013.

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I remember a mechanic dieing in Walnut depot. If I remember correctly he too was a union rep on the depot level. He got under a RTS and cut the airbag and the bus crushed him to death.

Stupid!

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(285164)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by David on Thu Oct 3 05:09:48 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 3 02:08:59 2013.

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That was in Fresh Pond, I believe -- or it happened twice.

David

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(285169)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 3 10:06:11 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by David on Thu Oct 3 05:09:48 2013.

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Yeah you are right.

I started June of 1995 and I thought of something happening like that after I started the job in Walnut too.

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(288127)

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by mci guy on Wed Dec 18 13:27:39 2013, in response to January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 1 14:56:22 2013.

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not that much has changed since this article was written. the bus fleet dates back to 1996. nyct needs to retire all buses in service from 1996-2000. they will not get replacements until 2015-2016. by then the situation in 1995 will look good.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by mci guy on Wed Dec 18 13:35:45 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Oct 1 23:14:36 2013.

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by the way lars updale i believe was a si bus driver who had a brother named eric. lars was one huge pain in the ass. how did lars get into management. one of them used to post on this forum.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by caine515 on Wed Dec 18 14:15:15 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by mci guy on Wed Dec 18 13:27:39 2013.

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The TMC buses they are referring to are #8401-#8567. I remember when they arrived a bulk of them were held at FLA for repair work. This is where they were supposed to go:

8401-8455-FLA
8456-8505-HUD
8506-8567-5th Avenue

at the same time Orion was sending #93001-#93072 and #93073-#93099(renumbered #101-#199) and also we were getting #200-#680. Here were their assignements.

#101-#159-YUK-as express. Orignally #93001-#93071.
#160-#172-CAS-as express. Orignally #93060-#93072.
#173-#199-CS.
#200-#299.GH and some went to MCH.
#300-#313.CS.
#317-CNG. 5th Av.
#400-#450-MCH.
#451-#504-Castleton.
#505-#580-Casey Stengel.
#581-#610.5th Avenue-CNG.
#611-#630. Casey Stengel-express. Eventually sent to CAS.
#631-#680. Local to Yukon.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by sloth on Thu Dec 19 19:48:04 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Oct 1 22:55:57 2013.

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There were a handful of 9000s running on the Manhattan East Side which may have lasted a bit longer. I remember seeing them but couldn't provide exact details.

Once in awhile I'd catch a Blitz on the q27 & get passed by two or three RTS's on the way to Main Street.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Dec 19 21:47:10 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by caine515 on Wed Dec 18 14:15:15 2013.

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Thanks for the list!

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Dec 19 21:48:17 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 3 02:08:59 2013.

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Very unfortunate.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by FutureKBArticOP on Thu Dec 19 22:34:32 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by LRG5784 on Thu Dec 19 21:47:10 2013.

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400-450 were delivered to Amsterdam....and were there until they closed it.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by The TransitMan on Thu Dec 19 23:50:01 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by FutureKBArticOP on Thu Dec 19 22:34:32 2013.

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Um...no. #400-401 were delivered to Casey Stengel. 402-451 were delivered I believe to Kingsbridge BEFORE moving to Amsterdam.

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Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses

Posted by The TransitMan on Fri Dec 20 00:10:33 2013, in response to Re: January 1995... Why MTA NYC Bus service suck so BAD!; + Orion & TMC fail to deliver buses, posted by caine515 on Wed Dec 18 14:15:15 2013.

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Ahhh....I see "Caine515" about the TMC assignments, which explains why they were split up like this:

#8401-8439 delivered to Flatbush

***These buses were split up such as (this might not be accurate...be easy)***:

#8440-8442, #8445-8446, #8451-8452, #8454, #8458, #8466, #8468, #8470-8472, #8477-8478 to 126th St

#8443-8444, #8447-8450, #8453, #8455-8457 to Flatbush

#8459, #8461-8465, #8467, #8469, #8473-8476, #8479-8517 to Hudson

#8460, #8518-8566 to Jackie Gleason


**************************************************
#151-172 delivered to Castleton.

#173-232 delivered to Casey Stengel.

#233-290,#298,#301-316 delivered to Kingsbridge...I think some went to Walnut because I saw #298 on the Bx15 back in 1997 AND when these buses went to Casey Stengel in 1997...some buses came from KB (#262-268, #279, #301-302, #304 to name a few) while others came from Walnut. I remember seeing those KB and WAL logos on the buses running on the Q13, Q16, Q28, etc.

#291-297, #299-300 delivered to Casey Stengel.

#452-458 delivered to Jackie Gleason THEN sent to Kingsbridge.

#611-630 delivered to Castleton THEN sent to Queens Village and THEN Casey Stengel.

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