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MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013

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This week, Manhattan is the testing ground for a used transit bus that has gone through a phoenix-like transformation from a retired low-floor vehicle to a state-of-the art, all electric bus that could offer improvements in efficiency, emissions and performance over standard buses.

The starting point is a retired 1996 bus that has been completely remanufactured with new, updated components, including flooring, interior, multiplexing, wiring and brake and suspension components. But the heart of the 40-foot, low-floor bus is a new zero-emissions propulsion system that operates without an internal combustion engine, features regenerative braking and offers a smooth, quiet ride.

“This is a first run of a new concept for the MTA,” said Henry Sullivan, Chief Maintenance Officer for the Department of Buses. “We currently operate clean diesels, hybrids and Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) but we are always willing to examine new products and new technologies. There are a lot of questions and at this point we are evaluating how many hours of operation we can squeeze out of the batteries before they require charging.”

During its time with New York City Transit, the bus will be in “shadow service” for a couple of days, following in-service buses along their routes to determine the feasibility of running an all-electric bus in one of the most demanding bus environments in the world.

The only passengers will be officials from the Department of Buses and representatives of the manufacturer, Complete Coach Works, of Riverside, Calif. The current version of the bus has an operating range of 95 to 100 miles, according to the manufacturer, which terms their system ZEPS for Zero Emissions Propulsion System.

The electric bus boasts a four- to six-hour charge rate system and is highly integrated with fewer parts, which should translate into faster installation and easier maintenance.

“One of the first things we want to determine is whether an all-electric bus can stay in service during our stop-and-go duty cycle, which can often amount to a 20-hour workday for our buses,” Sullivan added.

While it’s too early say whether an all-electric bus is the future of surface transit in New York City, the MTA plans to continue examining the concept.

---http://new.mta.info/news/mta-new-york-city-transit-takes-battery-powered-bus-manhattan-test-drive

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(275007)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 19:37:46 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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Yea I seen this a while ago jay Leno was talking about this but the thing is wat about the age of the bus.eve if its striped dwn to the metal its still a 17yo bus. If thats the case then keep the fleet u have and do the same thing

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(275008)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by caine515 on Tue Apr 9 19:38:14 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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my luck its only going to run in manhattan. but hopefully someone will take pics of this.

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(275009)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 19:38:16 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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Wat route is this bus running on

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(275011)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 9 20:00:09 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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As the article state, the range is only for 95 to 100 miles, so it has to be used on a low speed, low mileage Crosstown route.

M42 perhaps?

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(275012)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 20:19:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 9 20:00:09 2013.

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Sounds about rite

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(275013)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Tue Apr 9 20:33:40 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 20:19:12 2013.

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Bring it to the 96th street crosstown

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(275014)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Apr 9 20:50:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 19:37:46 2013.

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Well, that's the idea, Complete Coach Works is promoting their ZEPS technology on a rebuilt bus, so that if fleets were to want newer buses but cannot afford a brand new bus or want to keep their fleet but still go electric, CCW can do a body overhaul/propulsion conversion. I don't think the idea is to find old buses to covert and sell to transit properties. They are not in that business.


--Dr. C

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(275016)

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PICS [Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan]

Posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Apr 9 21:31:21 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by caine515 on Tue Apr 9 19:38:14 2013.

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This bus completely caught me off guard on my southbound M15 SBS trip... didn't even think NYCT would be testing this type of technology, but then again, when it comes to electric and hybrid, NYCT would be willing to test everything...


It was out shadowing several M42 buses throughout the course of the day today:









--Dr. C

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(275017)

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Re: PICS [Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan]

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 22:16:18 2013, in response to PICS [Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan], posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Apr 9 21:31:21 2013.

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Nice shots.

Would like to see passenger service soon.

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(275018)

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Re: PICS [Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan]

Posted by Grand concourse on Tue Apr 9 22:24:39 2013, in response to PICS [Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan], posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Apr 9 21:31:21 2013.

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Great catch!

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(275029)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by JAzumah on Wed Apr 10 09:15:39 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 9 20:00:09 2013.

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M8/M21/M22/M96/M106/M116

Traffic on the M42 might reduce its range.

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(275047)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by artenn3164 on Wed Apr 10 15:31:50 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bx36ltd on Tue Apr 9 19:37:46 2013.

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I know a lot of bus fans won't be happy, but if this works out, and it seems to be, there'll be no need for tracklesses and it would be possible to run streetcars with no overhead wires.

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(275080)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:37:23 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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This has a familiar ring to it...didn't they try something like this already within the past 5 -7 years ago?

Also, just as there were battery trolleys in the old days, this might be workable on short routes, like the M8 or M9 short supplements. But I don't see this working on super-long routes, like the S78 or Q44..or even intermediate lengths. Also, would a fleet partially composed of battery vehicles really be "greener" than low sulfur diesel/hybrid power?

Denver uses battery vehicles on 16th Street, no?

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(275082)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:39:11 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:37:23 2013.

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Also, how well will it stand up in air conditioning season, with the doors opening and closing? I bet that's where it will fall down...

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(275083)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:40:25 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Apr 9 20:00:09 2013.

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M8, perhaps...

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(275093)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Dr. Casca on Thu Apr 11 18:11:00 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:39:11 2013.

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Well, it was said by CCW that the HVAC units being used on conventional buses (which are in the 80,000 BTU range as far as power consumption) can be handled by the 12 (and possibly more if transit properties request it for longer range) battery packs to power a very small but powerful electric motor (which only requires 360 volts.

Some technical information and a video.

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(275099)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by ctrabs74 on Thu Apr 11 21:52:09 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:37:23 2013.

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You might be thinking of the Proterra buses that failed miserably.

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(275100)

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Re: NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan *correction*

Posted by ctrabs74 on Thu Apr 11 21:52:55 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:37:23 2013.

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I meant the DesignLine buses, not Proterra.

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(275107)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Apr 11 22:41:47 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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That is the nicest looking '96 anything I've seen in a while (at least for road vehicles).

*really* hoping this idea takes off and MTA's Orion Vs get a second life with this...

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(275108)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Bx36ltd on Thu Apr 11 22:53:34 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Apr 11 22:41:47 2013.

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Don't think they will there high floors mabe the low floor vii

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(275117)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 12 06:57:13 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Dr. Casca on Thu Apr 11 18:11:00 2013.

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Well, I guess we'll see in the 85+ degree weather. That'll be the real test. if this bus can remain in operation with the AC going full blast, then, assuming nothing else goes wrong, it's a success.

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(275118)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Apr 12 08:26:57 2013, in response to MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Apr 9 18:22:33 2013.

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Unless there's more than one, it's a 1994 or '95 (ex-Long Beach Transit 9402)

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(275132)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 12 14:30:46 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by ctrabs74 on Thu Apr 11 21:52:09 2013.

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Possibly. I just know that I've heard of this sort of experiment in NYC before.

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(275147)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by merrick1 on Fri Apr 12 20:37:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 12 06:57:13 2013.

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They aren't really working the AC hard if there are no passengers.

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(275245)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by artenn3164 on Mon Apr 15 16:09:16 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by merrick1 on Fri Apr 12 20:37:26 2013.

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Remember, this bus ran in regular service for Gardena Municipal Bus Lines with a regular passenger load.

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(275288)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Apr 19 08:58:33 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by artenn3164 on Mon Apr 15 16:09:16 2013.

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But as far as I know, it hasn't operated in the winter conditions New York can get.

Let's see how well the bus can perform when it's 4ºF outside with 6 inches of snow on the ground…

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(275290)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Apr 19 09:40:40 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 11 14:40:25 2013.

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Assuming that a single shift on the M8 consists of deadheads to and from MJQ depot (2.4 miles each way), and 7 round trips (4.4 miles each), a shift on the M8 stands at 35.6 miles, well within the stated 80-mile range.

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(275298)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by Gold_12th on Fri Apr 19 12:29:25 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Apr 19 08:58:33 2013.

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I believe a similar bus, a Gillig low floor ZEPS from Washington State transit operator has operate in winter conditions.

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(275368)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by artenn3164 on Sun Apr 21 13:26:43 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Apr 19 08:58:33 2013.

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Don't be such a nattering nabob of negativity. These batteries generate heat when in use and they're in a climate controlled environment.

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(276419)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by mneshati on Wed May 22 16:49:10 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by JAzumah on Wed Apr 10 09:15:39 2013.

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Not at all, after 10 hours of shadow routing and covering both the morning AND afternoon rush hours the bus still had 54% charge left over!

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(276422)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by mneshati on Wed May 22 16:52:52 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by JAzumah on Wed Apr 10 09:15:39 2013.

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Not at all, we ran a full eight hour shift, kept going for another 2 hours, for a total of 10 hours of shadow routes through both morning and afternoon rush hours on the M 42 route and still had 54% battery charge left when we concluded the tests!!

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(276450)

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Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan

Posted by BrianB on Thu May 23 19:42:17 2013, in response to Re: MTA NYC Transit testing Complete Coach Works' 96 New Flyer ZEPS demo bus in Manhattan, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Apr 19 12:29:25 2013.

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Not yet, we just got it a week ago.

Our summers get really really hot, I'll let you know if they put it in service in time.

Brian Bradford
Kennewick, WA

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