|
|
| Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 (260249) | |
 |
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (260249) | |
Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Gold_12TH on Mon May 14 14:59:31 2012  |
|
|
| (260250) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 14 15:36:18 2012, in response to Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon May 14 14:59:31 2012. I'm sick and tired reading about the MTA's lies. How was the 20% decrease in travel time measured. Show me the raw data which shows that this accounted for increased walking times to the SBS stops and was not merely a decrease in bus travel times. Also, show me where the 10% increase in ridership came from? Did they come from neighboring routes and was service cut on those routes as a result? Prove it was really a ten percent increase in overall ridership. If so, why is bus ridership generally declining?The MTA just continues to make broad statements without showing any type of back up and frankly, I'm just a little tired of it. |
|
|
| (260293) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Mr RT on Tue May 15 07:51:03 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 14 15:36:18 2012. So, whay are they doing it ?If the policy is zero cost change, how do they justify this internally ? |
|
|
| (260303) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 11:39:10 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Mr RT on Tue May 15 07:51:03 2012. Because Select Bus Service saves money because the bus makes quicker trips by making fewer stops. It's really a service cut disguised as an improvement although those making long trips do benefit, but those are a minority of the passengers.They don't consider the capital costs because most of it is subsidized. All the MTA has to pay or is the maintenance of the payment machines. Thwart of the ost of those may also be Federal or State money. |
|
|
| (260304) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 11:40:23 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 11:39:10 2012. Last sentence -- Part of the cost of those may also be Federal or State money. |
|
|
| (260317) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 15 13:17:52 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 14 15:36:18 2012. The MTA just continues to make broad statements without showing any type of back up and frankly, I'm just a little tired of it. LOL, have you (or rather, someone who they don't ignore) asked them these questions directly? |
|
|
| (260326) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Mr RT on Tue May 15 14:15:14 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 11:39:10 2012. It was a retorical question on my part. |
|
|
| (260337) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by RailBus63 on Tue May 15 17:13:22 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 11:39:10 2012. Because Select Bus Service saves money because the bus makes quicker trips by making fewer stops. It's really a service cut disguised as an improvement although those making long trips do benefit, but those are a minority of the passengers.I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. Wouldn't the same be true if light-rail advocates got their way and streetcars replaced the M15 Limited? People along rail lines understand that you have to walk farther to access a station but the trade-off is generally accepted because of the faster ride offered. |
|
|
| (260352) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 19:30:32 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by RailBus63 on Tue May 15 17:13:22 2012. I'm not sure I understand your point. |
|
|
| (260357) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue May 15 20:29:01 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 19:30:32 2012. The point is that having stops spaced further apart does benefit the passengers by providing a faster trip time (and of course, it saves the MTA money by speeding up the buses). For instance, I think the 8th Street stop saw decent usage, but the time saved by the passengers already onboard is definitely enough to justify the inconvenience caused to those who used it (the problem is that at times the locals can be unreliable, but that's a seperate issue). |
|
|
| (260368) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 21:37:38 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue May 15 20:29:01 2012. Yes if the average trip is long, say over 2 3/4 miles, I could see the need for SBS, but not on a route where there is frequent turn over and the average trip is less than 2 miles. Then the three minutes or so the bus saves is canceled out by walking extra to and from the bus stops. If a separate bus lane is warranted and it could be enforced and could cut bus trip times significantly, then that shod be done but without SBS. |
|
|
| (260375) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue May 15 22:15:59 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 21:37:38 2012. But the thing is that not everybody is going to have their stop eliminated. So yes, for those people who lost their stop, they waste 5 minutes walking just to save 3 minutes, but for everybody else they save 3 minutes outright. |
|
|
| (260378) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 15 22:35:02 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue May 15 22:15:59 2012. And the stops that remain serve more people. Also, there is time saved with reduced dwell time by having fare payment handled on the sidewalk. It is also theoretically easier to keep them on schedule by having fewer "dice rolls" as far as whether the bus will be able to pass or have to stop at any given stop [and removing the randomness factor regarding people fumbling for their card helps too]. |
|
|
| (260381) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by RailBus63 on Tue May 15 23:05:50 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 19:30:32 2012. Sorry - maybe I could have phrased it better. My question is, why would fewer stops be bad if it does result in faster service?Let me ask one further question - in your opinion, should there be a limited or SBS version of the M15 at all? You've stated that the average ride on this route is under 2 miles. Is there enough ridership going 3 or 4 miles or greater to support dedicated the resources to a limited-stop service? I've always assumed there is, but maybe the data says otherwise. |
|
|
| (260395) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Mr RT on Wed May 16 07:14:15 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by RailBus63 on Tue May 15 23:05:50 2012. Light Rail/SBS should be instead of subway vs. in addition to it.On the East side there is a desprate need for additional N-S express service. That need should be reduced whenever the 2ndAveSTUBway gets built. The other major advantage of Light Rail vs. bus is in cities that are dieing. LRV tend to create TOD (Transit Oriented Development). Local examples are Newark City Subway, HBLR & River Line (all in NJ). Only Brooklyn Bus would argue that is just what Sheepshead Bay needs. |
|
|
| (260396) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Mr RT on Wed May 16 07:16:48 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 15 22:35:02 2012. You have to rember that Brookly Bus is now in that AARP group.He wants a bus stop at every corner :-) |
|
|
| (260411) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Joe on Wed May 16 11:25:55 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Mr RT on Wed May 16 07:16:48 2012. I wonder which route (Bx41 on Webster vs. B15/55 on Third) encounters more traffic signals from The Hub to Fordham Road. As a generalization, I feel that bus travel in NYC suffers from too many signals. An automobile driver complained to me last week about the signal timing for a stretch on Webster from East 168 Street to Tremont. He said a signal will change green, and the next will flip red. |
|
|
| (260412) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Mr RT on Wed May 16 12:42:54 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Joe on Wed May 16 11:25:55 2012. Some of the major highways they are timed South or West in the AM & North or East in the PM.I'm sure Brookly Bus can give you further insite on how much energy the DOT Traffic Dept spends on this. |
|
|
| (260419) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 16 13:29:46 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 15 21:37:38 2012. Yes if the average trip is long, say over 2 3/4 miles, I could see the need for SBS, but not on a route where there is frequent turn over and the average trip is less than 2 miles. 2 miles is pretty far. |
|
|
| (260420) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by UTC Bus Roster on Wed May 16 17:46:40 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 16 13:29:46 2012. We don't need SBS on the Bx-41!!! There's too many seniors on the northern end of the route that would be inconvenienced by the buses skipping by their stops. Also, street parking is at a premium on Webster Ave. Where would people park when the remove numerous parking spaces for that bus lane? My family lives on the Bx-41/Bx55 route on Webster Ave. It's bad enough with so many limiteds and not enough locals as it is!Also, the lights on Webster are definitely way out of sync! You have to drag race to make some of these lights! That's another reason why the Bx-41 service is so bad now. Also, extend it back to 241 St.-Baychester. It's assinine to have to change buses to complete that trip! The Bx-55 would benefit with the SBS, but they need more service to Gun Hill. |
|
|
| (260421) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 16 18:25:34 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by UTC Bus Roster on Wed May 16 17:46:40 2012. They'd simply convert the limiteds to +SBS+. No local buses would be lost. |
|
|
| (260429) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Concourse Express on Thu May 17 00:06:58 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 16 18:25:34 2012. The Bx41 LTD operates (generally) during rush hours only, however. If the proposed Bx41 +SBS timespan goes beyond that, you might indeed lose some local service (assuming no extra buses added).In any case, methinks a Bx55 +SBS (with restored weekend service and possibly more service to Gun Hill) would be a better fit... visit my blog! |
|
|
| (260436) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 17 03:19:44 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Concourse Express on Thu May 17 00:06:58 2012. Just a general question, what is the current day purpose of the Bx 55? I thaught it is a limited route, that was a former subway line, that makes former subway stops which means that it is an SBS with out the special bells and whistles that it provides... |
|
|
| (260437) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Concourse Express on Thu May 17 03:46:21 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 17 03:19:44 2012. It is a limited route and it still makes the same stops between Gun Hill and The Hub that the ol' 3rd Ave El once made. It supplements the Bx15 along 3rd Ave (indeed, it's more frequent than current Bx15 service, though service to/from Gun Hill is not so frequent).Methinks +SBS is a bit more than bells and whistles; all-door boarding does reduce dwell time somewhat, reducing overall running time (which, assuming # of buses remains unchanged, implicitly yields more frequent service). Implemented on the Bx55, it could lead to cash-savings that could be funneled toward more frequent Gun Hill service and/or restored weekend service. visit my blog! |
|
|
| (260441) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Joe on Thu May 17 12:41:20 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Concourse Express on Thu May 17 03:46:21 2012. I did not attend the May 16, 2012, forum as advertised at the beginning of this thread. Did any Buschatter or Subchatter attend the forum? Thanks. Joe |
|
|
| (260443) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 17 13:05:39 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Concourse Express on Thu May 17 03:46:21 2012. What I meant by the bells and whistles, I meant lacking the privilages and setup of a current SBS route - more like a test pilot of the early SBS system.SBS concepts have many benefits and many cons.. I am a fan of all door boarding however losing parking lanes to extend the bus stop you can give that back. However I think some of its benefits should be used on some busy routes like the Bx 55 I mention once in Queens, at the Queens Blvd terminal, the Q 46 have long lines at the terminal (3x worse during rush hours) if all door boarding by allowing paxs to pay their fare before entering was implemented it could overall speed up times on an area that is known for delays because of it. |
|
|
| (260446) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 17 13:16:48 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 16 13:29:46 2012. bump |
|
|
| (260471) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 18 10:24:41 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 16 13:29:46 2012. Not when you consider that the average local bus ride is 2.3 miles, but it may be slightly less now with bus subway transfers. |
|
|
| (260487) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by TERRapin station on Fri May 18 16:18:30 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 18 10:24:41 2012. Huh? 2 is less than 2.3. So by extension if I think 2 is pretty far, then I also think 2.3 is even farther. |
|
|
| (260488) | |
Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012 |
|
|
Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri May 18 17:45:11 2012, in response to Re: Webster Av Select Bus Service Meeting - open house - 5/16/2012, posted by Joe on Thu May 17 12:41:20 2012. http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=260481 |
|
|