| NJ Transit to cut five bus routes (260314) | |
|
|
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
| (260329) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue May 15 15:41:33 2012, in response to NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 15 13:10:06 2012. Once again, a transit agency states, “It’s a place to get the most savings while affecting the fewest people.” No, for taxpayer-funded public transportation, it is not merely an analysis of the number of people affected, but also how those people are affected.Consider two alternatives (and assume each would have the same financial effect). First, 100 people are affected by a change on bus route 1, and all those affected are able to complete their travel by traveling on bus route 2. Second, 5 people are affected by a change on bus route 3, but not a single person is capable of competing their travel with any other possible alternative. Using NJT's analysis, the second change ought to be made, because it affects fewer people, even though it affects those people significantly. But, public policy supports the first change, because even though more people are affected, the degree to which they are affected is insignificant. Simplistic soundbite answers are not always the proper response. |
|
| (260336) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by RailBus63 on Tue May 15 17:04:55 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by BusMgr on Tue May 15 15:41:33 2012. The problem is, 100 people will usually make a lot more noise than the 5 people. |
|
| (260392) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed May 16 06:57:10 2012, in response to NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 15 13:10:06 2012. I can tell you one line that need MORE buses is the 139. Its becouming standing room only on some of the Mid Morning buses during the week. Then the gap of 1 hour from 12mid to 1am were there not but to Lakewood. There a 1230am bus out of the Port but it ends short at Alder Dr. Park and Ride. I need to go 2 more stop but if I miss the 12mid bus I have to wait a hour, and yes I have missed the 12mid bus a few time and waited. There was a few people who have to do this as well. Its not fair send the 1230am bus the extra 12mins into Lakewood would save maybe 15 people from waiting an extra 30mins to get home. |
|
| (260450) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Flxible4life on Thu May 17 15:27:43 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed May 16 06:57:10 2012. That line is major in Central Jersey! I know they have talks and plans for a central rail line, but that's going to take years. I agree with the gentleman that missed his 12a.m. Bus to Lakewood. NJ Transit should extend all trips past mid-night to Lakewood. During rush hour, the line has 50 plus buses running along rte.9 corridor and not to mentioned it's helper..Academy with who knows how many buses. Until they start putting the rails down for central jersey to Newark/NYC, please add more bus service mid-mornings and throughout the day NJT. Not to mention the weekends. |
|
| (260500) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by kknj on Fri May 18 22:15:16 2012, in response to NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 15 13:10:06 2012. Why don't they cut the #82 line in Hudson County? That route runs only 6 round trips a day, and it totally duplicates other routes. Along Summit Avenue it runs along with the #83. And between Five Corners and Exchange Place it's the #80. |
|
| (260522) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by SJP7121 on Sat May 19 10:11:08 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by kknj on Fri May 18 22:15:16 2012. Because that line is mostly for the financial and school people. I've driven it and it carries, especially the school kids. Standing room, to the standee line type of people. |
|
| (260528) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sat May 19 11:17:10 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by BusMgr on Tue May 15 15:41:33 2012. To what degree must everybody else subsidize those 5 passengers? Do they really warrant a full-size bus on a regular everyday schedule "just in case" they feel like going somewhere once? Maybe it would be better to give them taxi vouchers for when they actually need to travel. |
|
| (260531) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Sat May 19 12:19:11 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sat May 19 11:17:10 2012. If 100 people are "affected," but the only result of having been affected is that they must instead use a different bus route, and we assume, arguendo, that each "affected" person has their journey extended by 1 minute (maybe increased dwell time from additional passengers), then the effect can be quantified as 100 person-minutes. On the other hand, if 5 people are "affected" by a different service change, and if we assume here, arguendo, that the result is that each person has no alternative service and must instead walk for 60 minutes to reach their destination, then the effect can be quantified as 300 person-minutes. The second scenario is more severe, and if only one service can be maintained financially, the second scenario is probably more deserving.Yes, on a per-capita basis the 5 people in the second scenario get more. But so what? If we're subsidizing transportation on the basis of the service, and not the passengers, then we need to look at the effects of system of services. People who travel for longer distances, or on less traveled routes, receive a greater subsidy benefit. That being said, there is something to the concept of providing every public transit user with a fixed dollar subsidy (which could be freely alienated to the extent not used), and then have all transit priced at a free market unsubsidized rate. For the "average" user, there would be no change. For the user who patronizes more expensive services (e.g., longer distance, less-traveled routes) out-of-pocket costs would be higher; and for those who patronize less expensive route the reverse would be true. If such a scheme were established throughout the NJT service area, I would expect that people who live in Newark or Hudson County would see a substantial benefit to themselves, whereas those people who live in places like southern New Jersey and Warren County would see monumental increases in their costs. |
|
| (261372) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 31 21:15:19 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by SJP7121 on Sat May 19 10:11:08 2012. Still duplicates other routes. |
|
| (261373) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 31 21:17:15 2012, in response to NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 15 13:10:06 2012. I wonder what kind of "restructuring" they're planning to do with the 62. It's always operated as two routes de-facto, south of Rahway. There should have been a bus route running "short" between Newark and Elizabeth via the airport ages ago, too. |
|
| (261383) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by SJP7121 on Thu May 31 22:58:58 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 31 21:15:19 2012. Ok, so what do you propose? |
|
| (261384) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by SJP7121 on Thu May 31 23:01:38 2012, in response to NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 15 13:10:06 2012. "The initiative will not result in laying off workers, because those positions can be absorbed by attrition or closing of bus garages." Are they NUTS? If ONE Garage closes, where the hell those drivers going to work? Where are the buses going to be parked? What garage will do what lines? It might cost the company MORE since there is Deadhead time, which drivers do get paid for. So, you close a garage, but pay more deadhead time for a driver to get to point A. I don't get the logic in that. |
|
| (261392) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 31 23:42:39 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by BusMgr on Sat May 19 12:19:11 2012. On the other hand, if 5 people are "affected" by a different service change, and if we assume here, arguendo, that the result is that each person has no alternative service and must instead walk for 60 minutes to reach their destination, then the effect can be quantified as 300 person-minutes.There's a flip side here though... sometimes reducing the bus schedule on a popular route results in people who want to take a scheduled bus (and arrive on time for it) being shut out of a bus that has gotten too crowded. Such a situation is absolutely unacceptable regardless of the time difference because the bus system's reliability has been compromised. Also in Albany there was a similar argument about our route restructuring. Many runs of several routes had patronages of less than 5 for the unique portion of their route. Meanwhile, there were higher density destination pairs that had no direct service, and one entire neighborhood that had no bus at all. By axing the lines that regularly patronage on the level of a car pool, we got brand new routes that have 15-20 people per bus over the unique portion of their routes. These people save time by either not having to walk for 10 minutes for their bus or not having to wait 20 minutes for a transfer. It doesn't matter if a bus commute is "possible" if it takes twice as long as driving; it becomes equally as useless to most residents as if there was no bus at all. The bottom line is you have to do the most good with the resources you have. |
|
| (261393) | |
Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 31 23:50:44 2012, in response to Re: NJ Transit to cut five bus routes, posted by SJP7121 on Thu May 31 22:58:58 2012. What's to propose? If you have a monthly pass, you can transfer from 80 to 83 and vice-versa; or buy a transfer. The streets are covered. |
|