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| Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited (257691) | |
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| (257802) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 20:23:10 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 24 16:16:41 2012. Sorry was thinking on the fly..... |
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| (257803) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 20:27:25 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Mar 24 17:47:03 2012. An answerhttp://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=257702 |
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| (257804) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 20:28:58 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by mike nash on Sat Mar 24 18:54:16 2012. Exactly think of the Q 52 as the Q 53A... The idea is like the express version variation of the QM 16 (Rock Pk./ Roxbury) and QM 17 (Far Rockaway).Which leads to my next question is there a need for 4 express bus routes oon the Woodhaven Blvd/Cross Bay Blvd corridor? Here is my issue MTA can save money by being creative with the BM 5 serving Lindenwood and eliminating the QM 15.. Use the savings for the QM 15 to create a BM 6 Rockaway PK - Lower Manhattan route |
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| (257805) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 20:30:14 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by mike nash on Sat Mar 24 20:16:05 2012. No I meant in regards of one depot to help another route's depot but I did said it is a great idea.... |
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| (257807) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 20:51:59 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Mar 24 17:47:03 2012. You have to consider that the number of routes isn't what matters. It's the frequency. As it is now, I don't think each individual route is excessively frequent. During rush hour, I believe you have the Q11 every 15 minutes, the Q21 every 30 minutes, the Q21 LTD (soon to be Q52) every 15 minutes, and the Q53 every 10 minutes. That comes out to a local every 10 minutes, and a limited every 6 minutes, which may seem like a lot, but it's not significantly more frequent than the other local/limited pairs in NYC. |
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| (257809) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by mike nash on Sat Mar 24 21:04:44 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 20:51:59 2012. no the current peak hw's are as follows :q11- 7.5 mins q21 - 30 q21L - 15 q53L 6-8 |
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| (257812) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 21:28:24 2012, in response to Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { "Q52" } Limited, posted by gold_12TH on Fri Mar 23 14:16:44 2012. Senior Citizen and disabled passengers from Broad Channel are going to be very upset at these changes. They'll be losing many local bus stops and will have to walk long distances to access the bus. MTA Bus should have the Q52/Q53 bus make local stops south of 163rd Avenue/Cross Bay Blvd. - Howard Beach to correct this situation. |
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| (257813) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Mar 24 21:28:58 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Mar 24 17:47:03 2012. The whole concept of a "route" is arbitrary. Are the Q111 and Q113 two separate routes? I say not; they are a single route with two designations. The proposed plan would presumably be two routes. One, a local route, will have two designations, Q11 and Q21, to help to distinguish between southern termini. Two, a limited-stop route, will have two designations, Q52 and Q53, to help distinguish between northern and southern termini. But presumably, the local route will have coordinated schedules for the different trip patterns, and it act as a single route. (Indeed, I would suggest that if Lindenwood is designated Q21, Howard Beach is designated Q11, then to be parallel a third designation should be used for Hamilton Beach. But doing so would not add a new "route"; just a new designation.) Likewise for the limited-stop route. |
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| (257814) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 24 21:29:12 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by mike nash on Sat Mar 24 21:04:44 2012. On the branches, however, off-peak, the Q11 is 60 minutes into Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach on each branch. |
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| (257815) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 24 21:30:24 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by BusMgr on Sat Mar 24 21:28:58 2012. The real question though might be: Will the Q52/53 service be split between Far Rockaway and LaGuardia Depots? (I would favor a split so that service ends at about the same time on both ends.) |
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| (257817) | |
My Rockaway plan Part 1 of 3 Brooklyn - Rockaway plan |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 21:38:51 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 24 16:19:58 2012. After thinking about it, here is what I do......Brooklyn/Rockaway plan 1)B 100 Eliminated - replaced by a modified B 2 route 2)B2: Route is modified and replaces the B 100 in Mill Basin. The route will operate from 5am - 1am, 7 days. Route will run via Av R, then the former B 100 route east of Gerritsen Av. 3)Q 22: Extend to Midwood - Kings Hwy Station, rush hours only. Other times terminate at Roxbury. It would run via Fillmore Av, then the former B 100 route east of Gerritsen Av. The Q 22 would make limited stops in Brooklyn, stopping at Kings Plaza, Nostrand Av, Ocean Av, and Kings Hwy Sta. 4)Q 35: extend to Arverne - B 74 St,via Q 22 route (except west of B 116 St where it would run via its current routing) 5)Create QM 14: Arverne - B 74 St/Downtown Loop express, via Q 22 routeing, then via Fillmore Av, Gerritsen Av, Quentin Rd, and Ocean Av follow the BM routes to Lower Manhattan. Eliminate Downtown loop service on the BM 4 and PM downtown loop service on the BM 1 and 3, and provide a transfer point between the QM 14/BM 2 and the BM 1,3,4 Midtown service at Church Av. 6)Rockawy Shuttle - Eliminate the current Rockaway Pk shuttle to operate 2 trains between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Pk will ease the idea of extending Q 52 to Far Rockaway and become the Q 22 limited ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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| (257818) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 24 21:43:59 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 20:51:59 2012. Exactly. It's multiple lines, but it's not like all of them are at 6min headways. |
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| (257819) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 24 21:45:18 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 24 21:30:24 2012. I agree, I've always thought the Q53 should've been split with FR when the MTA acquired TBC and GL. |
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| (257820) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 21:48:15 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 21:28:24 2012. Why would they be mad? The Q 21 was running at 30 min headways, was originally terminating at Liberty Av and I have not seen one complaint from a Senior Citizen or disable passenger to increase it nor the ridership in those 2 catagories also does not justify all local service.If your statement is true, then why has Q 21 ridership has not changed, I have done the Q 21 local trek several times and it always seem to be the same pattern. The current Lindenwood/Old Howard beach stop at 157 Av is suitable. The Q 21 and the Q 41 does serve Cross Bay Blvd and the Q 11 and Q 21 buses already serves the Woodhaven portion. So why the need of change? |
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| (257822) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 21:54:13 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 24 21:30:24 2012. It would make sense but how would that work? I mean if you do the math the Q 52 needs less drivers than the Q 53 route, so the only way that would work is more service to displace riders somewhere..... |
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| (257824) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 22:00:47 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 21:48:15 2012. Although not many Broad Channel passengers ride the bus when they do ride the bus they'll have a long journey to find a bus stop with only three limited stops serving Broad Channel. What's wrong with keeping all of the current Q21 local bus stops in Broad Channel for the Q52/Q53 service for the convenience of the passenger? |
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| (257829) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:54:42 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 22:00:47 2012. The Express buses only make two stops in Broad Channel. Personally, when I took the Q21/Q53 to Broad Channel to visit, I was the only one getting off the bus and the only one getting on the bus. |
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| (257830) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:56:18 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 24 21:30:24 2012. The Q52 would be out of Far Rockaway and the Q53 would be out of LaGuardia. Although unspoken, the Q52 is designed to move some of the Q53's work to Far Rockaway without moving the Q53 itself due to contractual issues. |
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| (257831) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 22:57:48 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 21:54:13 2012. If they try to schedule the Q52 to run ahead of the Q53, they could shift the ridership towards the Q52. Then they say "The Q52 is more crowded than the Q53", and shift some service from the Q53 to the Q52.Of course, the problem with this is that Rockaway Park gets screwed (though I'm sure they'd still receive a decent level of service). By the way, I can't check PDFs files on this computer. The Q52 will end at Queens Blvd right? Not Woodside? |
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| (257832) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 24 23:04:54 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:56:18 2012. Interesting. |
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| (257833) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 23:09:41 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:54:42 2012. Same here, I have been riding the Q 21 since the Green Line days and there either 1 or no one on the bus at Broad Channel and south, so I don't see why there is a need for local service. |
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| (257834) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 23:10:45 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 22:57:48 2012. That is what MTA Bus might also do as well. The Q52 will end where the Q11/Q21 ends currently at Queens Blvd. Regardless, MTA Bus cannot fail to provide a decent amount of service to the Q53. But if the Q52 is set up to move some of the Q53's work to Far Rockaway, then it is easier to interline Q52 service with the Q11/Q21. Also since the Q21 will be truncated to Howard Beach, you could also interline the Q21 with the Q41. In contrast, the Q53's interlining opportunities are not good as B.116th St. because the only other route that ends there is the Q35 which is out of Far Rockaway Depot and the Q53 does not share a terminal on the Woodside end where it could interline with another route. Another thing to note about the Q53 which makes it costly is that there is (or maybe was) a provision in the union contract which mandates that they provide spare B/O's specifically for the Q53 during summer weekends. |
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| (257835) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 23:11:06 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:56:18 2012. That makes alot of sense..... |
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| (257836) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 23:38:55 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Sat Mar 24 22:54:42 2012. During rush hours more people use the bus from the other local stops. |
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| (257837) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 23:48:02 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 23:38:55 2012. Again during rush hours, the Q 21 local does not get any or 1 - 2 stop there. However like I suggested before if a pax want to use a local stop from the Broad channel area, they can simply get off at 157 Av for a Q 21/ Q 41 bus (for Local Cross Bay service) or Liberty Av for Q 11/Q 21 (for local Woodhaven bus service) |
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| (257841) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 25 00:02:29 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Mar 24 22:00:47 2012. The thinking is that so few customers will be affected that it doesn't really matter. |
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| (257842) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 25 00:03:39 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 23:48:02 2012. As a result of these changes, however, only the Q52/3 would serve Broad Channel. The Q21 would share a turnaround with the Q41. |
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| (257843) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Mar 25 00:04:06 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Mar 24 23:48:02 2012. The Q21 won't be operating in Broad Channel any more. I'm refering to the local stops in Broad Channel not the local stops on the mainland. Another words the distance between the three limited stops in Broad Channel is very large. In the southbound direction the limited stop at Noel Road and the next limited stop at West 15th Road is an eight block distance. In the northbound direction the limited stop at East 9th Road and the limited stop at East 16th Road is a seven block distance. To the north of Broad Channel there eliminating two bus stops and leaving only one at 5th Road/Cross Bay Blvd. The bus stop at 4th Road being eliminated and the stops serving near the American Legion Post (near 2nd/3rd Road) would also be eliminated. |
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| (257851) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 25 10:44:32 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 25 00:02:29 2012. Since there are so few passengers boarding and alighting in Broad Channel, it would make little difference in having the Q52 and Q53 operate "locally" in Broad Channel. For many years the Q21 operated only to provide such local service, as patronage would not other justify the route.Under federal law, as a condition for federal financial assistance, public hearings are to be held prior to major service reductions. Here, MTABC is essentially discontinuing the entire Q21 route by slight of hand and with no public hearing. (Historically, the Q21 operated from Liberty Avenue to Rockaway Park. When the Q21A was discontinued, the Q21 was diverted into Lindenwood to help out the Q41--and patronage into and out of Lindenwood became dominant--but the historic and essential nature of the Q21 remained a local route connecting the mainland with Broad Channel and the Rockaways.) Imagine the mischief that this devious trick will inspire. Suppose MTABC or NYCTA desire to eliminate route "X." Well, just append route "X" to some other, longer, route, and change the designation of that merged route to "X." Wait six months, and then discontinue the historic portion of route "X." End result: elimination of service without triggering a major service reduction and public hearing requirement. |
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| (257872) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 25 16:44:35 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Mar 24 22:57:48 2012. It will end at Queens Center.BTW, your load-shifting plan is what is already done on the B103 Limited in the Canarsie-bound direction only. |
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| (257875) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Mar 25 18:22:13 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 25 16:44:35 2012. You mean that the short-turns are scheduled in front of the long runs? That's not really to shift ridership, though. That's more for crowd control (rather than people getting onto a bus that has 10-15 people from DT Brooklyn, they get onto an empty bus). |
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| (257885) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Mar 26 01:05:37 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Mar 25 18:22:13 2012. That would relieve overcrowding on the Q53 at Queens Center and down the line too. |
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| (257919) | |
Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited |
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Posted by TML on Tue Mar 27 02:39:42 2012, in response to Re: Service changes on Q21 restructuring to Q21 Local & Q21 { ''Q52'' } Limited, posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Mar 25 00:04:06 2012. In other words, does this mean that the stops serving the parking lots at the north end of Broad Channel (just off the Addabbo Bridge) will be no more? |
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