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| (255508) | |
Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 14:48:32 2012 S79 SBS start date is SEPTEMBER 2012B44 SBS start date is DECEMBER 2012 subject to change ---from MTA's Milestone Report, page 6, pdf |
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| (255509) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Sun Feb 12 15:13:45 2012, in response to Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 14:48:32 2012. The S79 does not need +SBS, just making it limited would do just fine. |
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| (255510) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 15:27:21 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Sun Feb 12 15:13:45 2012. MTA & Queen Bloombitch disagrees with you |
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| (255511) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by mike nash on Sun Feb 12 15:45:02 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 15:27:21 2012. Which of the 90 artic orders are they refeering to as 6months late the xd60's or the New Flyer DE60LFR Hybrid-Electric Low Floor Articulated. |
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| (255512) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by mac5689 on Sun Feb 12 16:07:25 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Sun Feb 12 15:13:45 2012. SBS is probably the new limited. |
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| (255513) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 12 16:19:27 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by mac5689 on Sun Feb 12 16:07:25 2012. Limiteds should go anywhere bus frequency is high enough and buses can pass each other. SBS should complement the subway though - not repeat it. The B44 SBS will be a waste of an SBS route that could have been Brooklyn's first potential high-speed (relatively) east-west rapid transit option. |
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| (255517) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by JFK DEPOT on Sun Feb 12 19:24:08 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 12 16:19:27 2012. I think SBS and Brooklyn just DONT mix..... granted it MAKES sense to do it on paperbut ultimately what works for 1 boro might NOT work for the others.... I SEE ALOT OF FAREBEATERS WITH THIS.... just send Flatbush the much needed artics it needs for the 44 and if theres some left over for the 41 |
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| (255523) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 20:24:47 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by mike nash on Sun Feb 12 15:45:02 2012. That's going to be XD60. |
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| (255527) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Mr RT on Sun Feb 12 21:52:20 2012, in response to Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 14:48:32 2012. BrooklynBus gets another 10 months |
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| (255539) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by sinclair on Mon Feb 13 07:54:27 2012, in response to Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 14:48:32 2012. Interesting. I would say: this tells me, in a way, that 6008-6097 should split between Casey Stengel and Yukon (c__c) but let's see where this goes. |
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| (255541) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Feb 13 09:33:23 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by JFK DEPOT on Sun Feb 12 19:24:08 2012. Artics on the B41? Have you seen what a demolition derby Flatbush Avenue has been for the past thirty years? OTOH, all the bodywork those Artics would need, would buy houses for the depot mechanics... |
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| (255545) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 13 11:42:17 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Mr RT on Sun Feb 12 21:52:20 2012. Another ten months for what?Construction is slated to begin this summer. You know the B44 will remove a traffic lane from Bedford Avenue north of Franklin. DOT doesn't believe that will affect traffic because there is excess road capacity in the area. Remember Bedford lost one of its three lanes to a bike lane in recently. Take away another and there will be one. Now I learn that DOT will remove one of the two lanes along parallel Classon Avenue in the next few months because of excess capacity BEFORE SBS GOES INTO EFFECT. Shouldn't they wait until after SBS to see if that excess capacity will still be excess? So we have a corridor with 5 lanes reduced to 2. That's a 60% decease in road capacity. Traffic congestion will soar. Some traffic will be shifted to the already overcrowded BQE and the B48 on Classon will be further slowed forcing people on to the B44 SBS so the MTA can claim success while they reduce more service on the recently truncated B48. They are doing their best to kill it. |
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| (255548) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Feb 13 12:53:03 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 13 11:42:17 2012. You know the B44 will remove a traffic lane from Bedford Avenue north of Franklin.Bedford and Franklin are parallel. |
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| (255549) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Feb 13 14:14:24 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by JFK DEPOT on Sun Feb 12 19:24:08 2012. Don't be so anxious to get those artics. You want to see fare beating at the max? You want longer headways? You'll get it. SBS or no SBS.If the Bklyn mentality is anything like the Bx's, people will see artics as an open invite to enter the rear doors just like they do on the SBS. And, of course, walk 60 feet to the front to exit! What a waste this city is. jrc |
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| (255550) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 13 14:23:32 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Feb 13 12:53:03 2012. Sorry, meant to say north of Fulton. Thanks for catching that before Terrapin. |
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| (255552) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Feb 13 15:04:44 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 13 14:23:32 2012. Sorry, meant to say north of Fulton.OK. Doing some extremely rough traffic analysis using NYSDOT traffic counts, a single-lane Bedford Avenue might be about 5 percent over capacity at Myrtle Avenue, the heaviest cross street, in the morning peak hour assuming no traffic diverts to parallel streets or other modes. Classon, meanwhile, would only be carrying half its capacity if reduced to a single lane. |
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| (255581) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by B1bus on Tue Feb 14 00:07:03 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Sun Feb 12 15:13:45 2012. What happens if someone can use the S78 or S79? |
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| (255582) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by grand concourse on Tue Feb 14 00:22:22 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Feb 13 09:33:23 2012. +1. Not to mention how bad things get when buses are backed up north of the Junction. Add artics to the mix and crowds waiting will become bigger and worse. And of course the fare beaters, unless there were cops or inspectors at the hubs, I don't see how artics will be any better than the 40' buses. |
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| (255583) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by grand concourse on Tue Feb 14 00:22:59 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Feb 13 14:14:24 2012. +10 |
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| (255587) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Mr RT on Tue Feb 14 06:46:16 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 13 11:42:17 2012. So, if you can't drive you'll have to take the new SBS ? |
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| (255590) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by subbus aka eny local on Tue Feb 14 09:37:05 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by JFK DEPOT on Sun Feb 12 19:24:08 2012. If artics should go on a Flatbush route, it should be the B46. But as others stated, the farebeating would go up dramatically. Especially at Eastern Pkwy, southbound..... |
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| (255594) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by PATHman on Tue Feb 14 13:22:10 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Feb 13 14:14:24 2012. The B46 doesnt use artics yet it still has farebeating. That should not be a reason for not using artics on a route that clearly has the ridership for it. |
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| (255598) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 14 16:14:40 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Feb 13 14:14:24 2012. The best thing to hope for the B41 & B46 and w/e other high ridership route that doesn't use Artics is to have a BX15 or BX19 fleet assignment, a mix of 40 Footers and Artics. |
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| (255607) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Feb 14 21:15:18 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by PATHman on Tue Feb 14 13:22:10 2012. Ridership that demands artics; doesn't mean artics will provide dependable service if headways are extended, which just may happen.jrc |
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| (255609) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 14 21:31:37 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Feb 13 15:04:44 2012. Thanks for trying.Don't know how you came up with that, but it just doesn't sound right to me. Aren't the counts daily counts? How could you possibly determine what is going on during the peak periods? |
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| (255611) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 14 21:33:18 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Mr RT on Tue Feb 14 06:46:16 2012. Not if the new SBS isn't going where you are going. You are assuming that everyone driving in the SBS corridor begins and ends their trip there, when in fact it might only account for a small portion of their trip, making the SBS virtually useless for them. |
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| (255615) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by grand concourse on Tue Feb 14 22:09:00 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 14 16:14:40 2012. When the MTA has artics, it usually means service reductions. I don't see it being 1 artic for 1 RTS. when you have traffic jams north of the Junction, the delays will just get worse. |
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| (255617) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Tue Feb 14 23:07:58 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by grand concourse on Tue Feb 14 22:09:00 2012. For every theee Artics on the road, that takes four 40' buses off the road. |
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| (255618) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 14 23:31:19 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Tue Feb 14 23:07:58 2012. No, Every FOUR artics on the road, that takes FIVE standard buses off the road. |
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| (255620) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 15 00:22:12 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 14 23:31:19 2012. okay..perhaps THAT wont happen on the sbs B44..due to the PRESENT conditions. |
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| (255624) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by grand concourse on Wed Feb 15 02:14:12 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Tue Feb 14 23:07:58 2012. But if the buses are backed up, that extra capacity won't do me any good if I can't get on the bus. I'd much rather have the 40' buses that i already deal with. If traffic was not as horrible as it is and there were more fare enforcement, then I'd have no problems with artics. |
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| (255626) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Mr RT on Wed Feb 15 07:21:54 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 14 21:33:18 2012. You are just taking me too seriously :-(Maybe you have been sniffing too much of the salt spray at Sheepshead Bay ? |
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| (255628) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 15 09:08:00 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 14 21:31:37 2012. Aren't the counts daily counts? How could you possibly determine what is going on during the peak periods?Counts are broken down by hour. I guessed at turning movements. |
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| (255631) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Feb 15 13:12:45 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 15 00:22:12 2012. It will happen. Artic B/O's get paid more, they're going to reduce service so they don't need as many B/O's, buses & gas. |
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| (255632) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Feb 15 13:30:28 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Feb 15 13:12:45 2012. Yeah how much more do they get paid, like 50 cents more? |
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| (255633) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 13:35:24 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 15 09:08:00 2012. Several problems with those counts. First of all they were taken in July. I drove to work during the morning rush hour over a variety of routes for about ten years and my observation was that July and August volumes were about 20% lower than at other times with the highest volumes in the weeks before Christmas.I see a small seasonal factor but it doesn't seem to be as high as it should be. Also, why is half of a Friday missing? A count for 6 1/2 days just seems strange. As I stated, I think the counts are too low. Also, if the number of vehicles passing a point is low, how do you know if that reflects low demand or it is because a blockage an an earlier point that is just preventing traffic from getting through? The number could also appear low if traffic is just stuck and the cars just can't move. Putting a counter on the street without visual observation does not tell the entire story. |
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| (255639) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Feb 15 14:58:41 2012, in response to Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Feb 12 14:48:32 2012. The SBS service will be a massive success like they have been on the Bx12 and the M15 and the M34/34A. Despite what some naysayers think, it is faster, it makes a huge difference for commuters. I've used all 3 SBS services and I can speak from the experience of being a PASSENGER. *Unlike some who think they know what SBS service is like and can comment when they haven't ridden any of them* I look forward to the new services and the people will too. |
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| (255642) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 15 15:57:37 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 13:35:24 2012. Several problems with those counts. First of all they were taken in July. I drove to work during the morning rush hour over a variety of routes for about ten years and my observation was that July and August volumes were about 20% lower than at other times with the highest volumes in the weeks before Christmas. I see a small seasonal factor but it doesn't seem to be as high as it should beI'm not sure how you managed to accurately count traffic while driving. The seasonal adjustment factor is based on three years of continuous data collection and is probably a better quantifier of seasonal variation. 9.6 percent is not small. Also, why is half of a Friday missing? A count for 6 1/2 days just seems strange. It seems pretty obvious that they put the tube down late Friday morning. Mondays and Fridays are generally ignored anyway. As I stated, I think the counts are too low. Also, if the number of vehicles passing a point is low, how do you know if that reflects low demand or it is because a blockage an an earlier point that is just preventing traffic from getting through? The number could also appear low if traffic is just stuck and the cars just can't move. Putting a counter on the street without visual observation does not tell the entire story. A "blockage" isn't going to last for six and a half days. I agree that a few manual intersection counts would be helpful (and I don't know that they haven't been done for this project). If you're free some morning between 7 and 9 and want to collect the data, please share. |
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| (255649) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 17:23:43 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 15 15:57:37 2012. Sorry to be a pain, but please explain how they are accounting for a 9.6% seasonal variation? When I do the arithmetic, it seems like they are saying July traffic is about 9.6% higher, not 9.6% lower than a typical month.It also looks like they are just ignoring the 12 hours of Friday data. Why not just pick up the counter 12 hours later and get a full week? You say a blockage won't last 6 1/2 days? Why not? if one lane is consistantly blocked by at least one double parked truck every day, making it virtually unusable, how would you know without manual observations? Also, why does it say SB in the upper left corner when Bedford is Northbound not SB? |
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| (255650) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Wed Feb 15 17:33:30 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 15 00:22:12 2012. One for one could never happen with artics. I didn't happen with 126st getting artic during the time and went from 180 buses to like 150. Flatbush doesn't deserve special treatment because of having some of the busiest routes and besides MTA doesn't want buses to be parked on the street because of lack of route. The way I see it Flatbush will lose 60 RTSs for those 48 artics to keep the storage capacity manageable. |
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| (255651) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Wed Feb 15 17:36:41 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 15 00:22:12 2012. One for one could never happen with artics. I didn't happen with 126st getting artic during the time and went from 180 buses to like 150. Flatbush doesn't deserve special treatment because of having some of the busiest routes. Besides MTA doesn't want buses to be parked on the street because of lack of depot room. The way I see it Flatbush will lose 60 RTSs for those 48 artics to keep the storage capacity manageable. |
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| (255654) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by mike nash on Wed Feb 15 18:34:30 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Wed Feb 15 17:36:41 2012. accually 64 40footer at peek with spears it's 72. |
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| (255660) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 20:05:37 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by ClearAspect on Wed Feb 15 14:58:41 2012. Can't imagine who you could be referring to.And what about all the riders who don't like SBS? Guess they just don't count. |
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| (255669) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 16 00:03:11 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Wed Feb 15 17:36:41 2012. "Flatbush doesn't deserve special treatment because of having some of the busiest routes."Lol! smh. |
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| (255679) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 16 09:18:12 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 17:23:43 2012. Sorry to be a pain, but please explain how they are accounting for a 9.6% seasonal variation? When I do the arithmetic, it seems like they are saying July traffic is about 9.6% higher, not 9.6% lower than a typical month.You're right. Usually a seasonal adjustment factor is what you multiply a raw count by to get the AADT, but it appears NYSDOT does the opposite. Summer traffic is actually higher. It also looks like they are just ignoring the 12 hours of Friday data. Why not just pick up the counter 12 hours later and get a full week? Probably because they were moving the counter elsewhere and had to get it ready to count Saturday. You say a blockage won't last 6 1/2 days? Why not? if one lane is consistantly blocked by at least one double parked truck every day, making it virtually unusable, how would you know without manual observations? If the lane is always virtually unusable, then it's fair to say it's a permanent condition. Also, why does it say SB in the upper left corner when Bedford is Northbound not SB? Typo. |
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| (255701) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 16 16:41:52 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 15 20:05:37 2012. Other than yourself, what percentage of riders don't like SBS service? Who hates a faster commute and more frequent service and faster boarding? |
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| (255705) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Feb 16 17:17:10 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by LRG5784 on Wed Feb 15 13:30:28 2012. Something like that. But when you add up how many drivers their are, and the hours and possible overtime, that adds up quickly. |
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| (255706) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Thu Feb 16 17:27:07 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by ClearAspect on Wed Feb 15 14:58:41 2012. M34/A is an absolute failure. Crowded, long waits, Boarding is very slow with the newbies struggling to adapt the SBS ticket method. Traffic congestion is bad. BusTime on M34/A is inaccurate. Fare enforcement is virtually scarce. |
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| (255722) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Thu Feb 16 20:46:30 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu Feb 16 17:27:07 2012. Thanx for the heads up on that one. I'll walk.jrc |
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| (255723) | |
Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 16 20:54:49 2012, in response to Re: Select Bus Service update on B44 & S79 bus routes, posted by Gold_12TH on Thu Feb 16 17:27:07 2012. Newbies struggling occurs with every line, but when I rode the line the few times I have, the bus arrived on time, the bus time was correct, and generally speaking the fare enforcement on SBS is scarce. |
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