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Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011

Staten Island commuters may have a bit of good news in an era of service cuts and what the latest census says is the longest commute in the United States.

Under the advisement of the Amalgamated Transit Union, a group of Staten Island politicians has successfully lobbied the New York City Transit Authority to propose extending and altering the X22 express bus service stretching between Tottenville and Midtown Manhattan.

"The commuters in my district that suffer the longest commutes in the country had a victory today with this expansion," said Councilman Vincent Ignizio in a statement. "And while we have a lot more work to do, we appreciate the newly found cooperation in the MTA.

The expansion would add two busses during morning service and two in the afternoon, and peak hour stops at the Outerbridge Park and Ride lot, which lost its express bus service with the cancellation of the AE7 bus route in December.

Councilman Ignizio characterized the change as a compromise, saying the MTA was hesitant to send an express bus to the Park and Ride lot, but that crowding on the X22 since recent service cuts and other information gleaned in recent months had changed to the organization's thought process on a need for more service.

"Service to the Outerbridge Park and Ride as well as the addition of four scheduled trips will be implemented in July 2011," said NYC Transit President Thomas Prendergast in a letter to Island pols, "as part of the Summer Bus Service Schedule."

Congressman Michael Grimm, Borough President James Molinaro, Councilman James Oddo, Assemblyman Louis Tobacco and State Senator Andrew Lanza also worked on the expansion.

"It is no secret that commuters on the South Shore of Staten Island endure the longest commutes in the country and suffer from a severe lack of transportation options to get into Manhattan," said Congressman Michael Grimm (R-NY13). "I am grateful that the MTA has recognized the need to alter the X22 route to offer some relief to our community utilizing the existing infrastructure at the Park and Ride facility." One last hurdle for the change remains, as the NYC Transit Committee and MTA Bus Operations Committee will vote on the proposed expansions in a public meeting Thursday.

source: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/improvements_slated_for_x22_ex.html

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(230436)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Apr 17 20:51:14 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

Let's give a round of applause to JAzumah:



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(230440)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Apr 17 21:29:29 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.


["It is no secret that commuters on the South Shore of Staten Island endure the longest commutes in the country and suffer from a severe lack of transportation options to get into Manhattan...."]

They should have thought about that before they decided to move out to the far end of nowhere.

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(230441)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Apr 17 21:49:19 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

I wonder how much of this is possible because of the opening of Charleston Depot, which has significantly shortened the deadhead distance. (Before, the X22 was assigned to Castleton on the North Shore.)

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(230445)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by LRG5784 on Sun Apr 17 22:09:08 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

Can someone say "X21"?

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(230452)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by JAzumah on Sun Apr 17 23:31:26 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by LRG5784 on Sun Apr 17 22:09:08 2011.

I received a non form letter from Operations Planning saying that they were considering the suggestion I posed. It would be nice if they implemented something close to what I proposed. It would be a big win for the commuters I disappointed and a big middle finger to the organization/person that tried to stop the route. The fact they are adding two pieces of equuipment means it is very likely that the buses going out of the Park & Ride will be Super Expresses.

As soon as I finish my fall schedule, I will submit a plan for the MTA to redraw the X17J and create a new X18 on the South Shore effective January 2012. That will allow them to cut the X17J at the Eltingville Transit Center and stop wasting so many seats on the south end. After taking over the X23 and X24, the MTA can then extend PM X22 service to midnight on an hourly basis and run shuttles on the X18, X23, and X24 to see how much demand there is post rush hour.

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(230455)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Apr 17 23:52:12 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by JAzumah on Sun Apr 17 23:31:26 2011.

Aw come on, post a map of your proposed X18.

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(230458)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by dkupf on Mon Apr 18 01:20:14 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by JAzumah on Sun Apr 17 23:31:26 2011.

I like your idea of operating X-designation shuttles in order to gauge ridership. However, should OP use this suggestion I would be very surprised.

Their criteria for the X-designation are 1) charge the express fare AND 2) operate interborough for each and every trip.

Plus, OP may claim that not only would it need hard documentation BEFORE implementing additional service, it was told by Prendergast that additional service can't be implemented without offsetting decreases in other services.

Unofficially, OP is afraid to use local designations after what occurred after the S74 was shifted to operate into Rossville. Bus stop signs for the S74 were being torn down overnight. When the DOT would restore the signs, the signs would be torn down again. But it stopped after a while. Unfortunately, there were no arrests.

The South Shore wants express service like holes in their heads. But implement local service at your own peril.

But, I say to hell with the criteria. The X-designation would alleviate fears of additional local service, and OP could always discontinue the service if it doesn't meet expectations.

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(230466)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 05:40:55 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by dkupf on Mon Apr 18 01:20:14 2011.

'like holes in their heads' implies they don't want it, when they really do.



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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 05:46:59 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Apr 17 21:29:29 2011.

Oh, can it. People don't generally WANT to live stacked up in box-sized apartments. Better schools & better quality of life (less noise, pollution, more space for families) far outweighed the need for efficient transportation at that time. But just as demand for better transportation and a population shift uptown and outward in the other boroughs pushed the development of the subway system, so should have the population shift of people to Staten Island led to development of better transportation options for those areas.

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(230468)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 05:47:55 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Apr 17 21:49:19 2011.

From reading the proposal for the adjustment of the s78 and s74, I'd say quite a bit.

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(230469)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Apr 18 05:52:41 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by dkupf on Mon Apr 18 01:20:14 2011.

Unofficially, OP is afraid to use local designations after what occurred after the S74 was shifted to operate into Rossville. Bus stop signs for the S74 were being torn down overnight. When the DOT would restore the signs, the signs would be torn down again. But it stopped after a while. Unfortunately, there were no arrests.

Really? That's pretty lame.

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(230470)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Mon Apr 18 06:00:02 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 05:46:59 2011.

[People don't generally WANT to live stacked up in box-sized apartments.]

I don't, either, so I made sure to buy a house near 4 subway feeder routes, an X-bus, and the LIRR.

In the case of the X22, people moved to the South Shore of Staten Island knowing that there were pathetically few commute options, so it's disingenuous for them to now complain about having pathetically few commute options.

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(230471)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 06:44:15 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

A big problem (or possible problem) with using the existing x22 to service the Outerbridge P&R is that the only access to the lot is via the highway. There is no authorized pedestrian path to the lot.

There are entry ramps from 440 (West Shore Expwy) northbound just before the Korean War Vets Parkway exit; southbound from 440, and southbound from the KWV Pkwy. The only exits from the P&R lot are onto northbound 440 and northbound KWV. (They used existing 'ghost ramps' that were to have been used had the West Shore been completed as planned.)
Because of this ramp arrangement, you can't use the P&R lot as a terminal, and then serve anything south of it; there's no efficient path from the P&R lot to Page Ave.

Exiting on to the KWV means the bus will need to loop Maguire Ave to return to the Bloomingdale Road routing. That results in a loop away from the primary routing of 2.5 miles to make ONE stop that isn't already served by the route.

Exiting onto northbound 440 means that unless they loop Woodrow Rd to Veterans Rd W, cross the highway again, then go north on East Service Rd to Bloomingdale Rd because the neighborhood streets there are too narrow for buses without banning parking on one side of the street, which we know won't happen. This routing adds nearly four miles.

An easy solution is to open, to buses and pedestrians only, the construction road that connects Pleasant Plains Ave (which used to be the connection from Amboy and Bloomingdale to the Outerbridge) and South Service Rd to the P&R. Then buses can enter and leave the P&R and use either South Service Rd or Pleasant Plains Ave to return to Bloomingdale Road. The route could then run northbound left on Page to 440 to enter the P&R, leave via the gate, and return to the existing route with a left on Bloomingdale from either Pleasant Plains Ave or S Service Rd; southbound, it would have to make a bit of a loop- right on Pleasant Plains, enter the P&R, and leave again via Pleasant Plains Av or S Service Rd., right on Amboy. This routing only cuts off a small area going northbound (Amboy Rd between Page and Bloomingdale) that is served by the existing route; this area doesn't have much in the way of people to stop for, as it is sparsely settled.

The real solution is to completely redraw the express bus service (x17/19/22) south of Richmond Ave from a blank map.

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(230472)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 06:45:50 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Mon Apr 18 06:00:02 2011.

You need to read what I wrote.

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(230474)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by MCI GUY on Mon Apr 18 07:19:58 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

at last a victory for staten island residents.

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(230481)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by LRG5784 on Mon Apr 18 09:04:04 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Apr 18 05:52:41 2011.

Same thing I said.

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(230484)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 18 09:38:29 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by JAzumah on Sun Apr 17 23:31:26 2011.

However, the buses are no longer backtracking to Yukon, but continuing on to Charleston. Maybe alternating trips should be truncated to ETC.

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(230485)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by JAzumah on Mon Apr 18 10:15:20 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 18 09:38:29 2011.

That can be fixed.

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Dan on Mon Apr 18 10:16:54 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by hank eisenstein on Mon Apr 18 05:46:59 2011.

Right, Hank. And S.I. is part of the MTA area and as NYC residents Staten islanders are taxed accordingly for MTA services, and have the right to demand adequate service to get to their jobs in Manhattan.

Since we will understandably never have direct subway service to Manhattan due to the extravagant cost od such a project, a reliable express bus network is not too much to ask for from the MTA.

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(230691)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by dkupf on Wed Apr 20 01:48:22 2011, in response to Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 17 20:49:04 2011.

The next step is to add weekday off-peak service, and break up the route path during the weekday rush:

X22 - Shift the southern terminus to Drumgoole Rd & Bloomingdale Rd.

New X32- All current X22 service south of the Outerbridge P&R Lot, operating non-stop between there and Manhattan.

The off-peak X22 route path would remain unchanged.

The following step would be to add Saturday service.

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(230834)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 21 12:00:14 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by dkupf on Wed Apr 20 01:48:22 2011.

Off-peak service? HAHAHAHAHA...

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(230896)

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Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service

Posted by dkupf on Thu Apr 21 23:17:09 2011, in response to Re: Improvements slated for X22 express bus service, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 21 12:00:14 2011.

The late Stephen Dobrow touted the virtues of weekday midday off-peak service, claiming that the costs, for the most part, are marginal, e.g., the X10, X17, and X27/28. Considering as to how frequent the X22 is during the shoulders of the rush, such service may not be too far off into the future.

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