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| Austerity: Contracting out routes (202307) | |
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| (202307) | |
Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010 Knowing that the MTA is in severe cash crunch, I have to wonder if it is high time for the MTA to consider contracting out services again that are operated across all of the MTA's bus operations (New York City Transit, Long Island Bus, MTA Bus Company, and Hudson RailLink.)The thinking is that contractors...not necessarily using union employers, but with the freedom of using non-union employers and/or part-time employees which could store buses where they see fit during the off-peak if not at the normal lot. They could also set the schedules (within guidelines), but the MTA would set the fares as they would still actually own the fleet. Local routes would use cutaways similar to what the N53 used in its final days; express routes would employ MCIs. On some routes (marked with a *), supplementary school service would be provided using MTA-owned-and-operated vehicles. An advantage for the local routes is that at the end of a route, a smaller bus could make a broken K-turn to turn around. Each contractor would be given a fixed sum of money per fiscal year with 5 percent for contingencies with which to operate. Contracts would be as follows: Bronx West: BxM1, BxM2, BxM3, BxM11, BxM18, Hudson RailLink, Bx20 (contractor would use Yonkers Depot) Bronx East: BxM4, BxM6, BxM7/A, BxM9, BxM10, BxM11, Bx8*, Bx16, Bx34 (contractor would use Eastchester Depot) Long Island east contract: N19, N45, N46, N47, N50, N51, N73, N74, N80, N81 (contractor must supply facility in Town of Hmepstead or Town of Oyster Bay). Long Island central contract: N2, N8, N36, N57, N58, N62, Q76*, Q79 (ressurected) (contractor must supply facility in Town of Hempstead or Town of North Hempstead Queens North express routes: QM1, QM2/A, QM3, QM4, QM5, QM6, QM7, QM8, QM10, QM11, QM12, QM24, QM25 (contractor would use College Point Depot) Queens South express routes: BM2, BM5, QM15, QM18, QM21, X63, X64, X68 (contractor must supply facility in a 114xx ZIP code) Manhattan/Brooklyn North contract: B39/B24 (combined route; B39 resurrected, B48, M8, M50, Q67 (operator must supply facility in the area bounded by the following area: Queens Boulevard to the north, 69 Street to the east, East River to the West, and the M line to the south) Brooklyn South contract: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4, X27, X28, B2, B4, B31, B64, B74 (operator must supply facility in Brooklyn south of Atlantic Avenue) Staten Island South contract: S54, S55*, S56*, S57, S66, X2, X3, X9, X22, X23, X24 (operator must supply facility in Staten Island, or in NJ bounded by the following areas: NJ Turnpike to the west, Raritan River to the south, and Elizabeth city line to the north) Thus far, I have excluded the QM16 and QM17, as I am not sure these routes can be contracted efficiently. Any other suggestions? |
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| (202319) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:18:48 2010, in response to Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010. So all of those B/O's lose their jobs to Non Union Trash? |
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| (202322) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jul 20 22:26:17 2010, in response to Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010. The question I have is if transfers would be allowed with MTA routes, especially local routes. The problem I have with no transfers is that I don't know if a market would exist for some of these routes without them, for example the B23. Usage on that route was light because it pretty much didn't go anywhere the B8 didn't go to and the B8 had better headways. Without free transfers, even fewer people would use it now than before. For the B23 to be viable, it would have to do more than the B8 like being extended east and north to Kings County Hospital. With half the B44s being removed from NY Ave under SBS , now would be a good time for the B23 to be extended to NY Av and be exended northward to the hospital. New routes should also be explored where bus service was not feasible and service gaps exist like along Albany Avenue south of Kings County Hospital. There is a reason why there are so many private livery cabs lined up outside Kins County Hospital, because the people need to get to areas where there are no easy bus routes available. |
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| (202323) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 22:26:43 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:18:48 2010. yeah, but what happens when the non-union works want to become unionized?Look at Baumann & Sons Buses Inc/ Acme Bus Corp, they had non-union drivers and mechanics for years, then they just recently (within the last year) joined a union because they were being treated unfairly by the company. |
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| (202325) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:30:22 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 22:26:43 2010. yeah, but what happens when the non-union works want to become unionized?Look at Baumann & Sons Buses Inc/ Acme Bus Corp, they had non-union drivers and mechanics for years, then they just recently (within the last year) joined a union because they were being treated unfairly by the company. Then thats cool! No problem with that at all. |
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| (202334) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by CapitalCruiser on Tue Jul 20 22:53:11 2010, in response to Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010. You would NEVER get the Unions to go for Private, non union companies, working out of Union properties (garages) not then, not now, not ever. The private operators would definately have to supply their own garages and the upkeep of the buses would have to comply with the TA's demand, in addition to the buses having to be DOT Inspected! If you did, even try to mix the two (Union & Non Union) drivers working out of the same garage, it would be suicide! There would be so much trouble it wouldn't be worth it. |
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| (202336) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 22:56:59 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by CapitalCruiser on Tue Jul 20 22:53:11 2010. What if the company with the union gave the non union company the property, would their still be a problem with the union? |
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| (202337) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:58:41 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 22:56:59 2010. What if the company with the union gave the non union company the property, would their still be a problem with the union?Why would a company "give" away property? |
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| (202338) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:01:39 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:58:41 2010. If they weren't going to be using it, or to cut a budget deficit. |
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| (202339) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 23:02:44 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:01:39 2010. You dont give away property if you arent getting something in return, not good business.. |
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| (202342) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:05:15 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 23:02:44 2010. maybe i shouldn't have said gave, what if the union company sold the non- union company the property. |
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| (202343) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jul 20 23:05:58 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by CapitalCruiser on Tue Jul 20 22:53:11 2010. Doesn't Academy run such an operation? |
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| (202345) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 23:06:51 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:05:15 2010. Ah! Then thats another matter!Fair Enough, probally there are things that have to be looked into before that happens though. |
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| (202346) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 23:07:25 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jul 20 23:05:58 2010. I was going to ask if somebody did that. |
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| (202349) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:09:15 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 23:02:44 2010. As in...sell the property.As I see it, most of the savings can be derived from the bus division. |
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| (202350) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:10:38 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jul 20 22:26:17 2010. There needs to be an easier way for routes to be adjusted rather than the complex system that exists today. |
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| (202351) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:12:44 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:09:15 2010. The first thing i would look at is if there were any property that they weren't using and sell it, why pay taxes on something you aren't using.Then Contract out routes if need be and sell off what i don't need after doing that. |
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| (202352) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:13:36 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:10:38 2010. Even the simplest way could seam complex. LOL |
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| (202355) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by R40slantontheB on Tue Jul 20 23:26:29 2010, in response to Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010. I'd love to see CBS Lines branch out into Nassau. It'd be nice to have garbage bins and have the buses wait for eachother, plus knowing how to make up time.Just dont put 9904 on my route...lol |
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| (202360) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:45:49 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Mac5689 on Tue Jul 20 23:12:44 2010. The MTA does not pay property taxes on what it owns. |
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| (202366) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jul 21 00:55:42 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Jul 20 23:05:58 2010. The Perth Amboy and Hoboken garages are union. The other locations (Leonardo, Toms River, Westampton, Pomona, and Bridgeport) are non-union. |
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| (202367) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jul 21 00:58:07 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by R40slantontheB on Tue Jul 20 23:26:29 2010. However, they would need to have a garage not too far away or they could not win the bid. I anticipate that school bus companies would bid on the Nassau contracts if this came to pass, resulting in bids from as many as four to five companies. |
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| (202381) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jul 21 08:54:16 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:09:15 2010. As in...sell the property.Did you read the rest of my respoinses? If you did you would know what else was said. |
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| (202388) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 21 09:28:22 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 23:10:38 2010. Please explain. |
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| (202395) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Jul 21 10:23:45 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Railman718 on Tue Jul 20 22:18:48 2010. How about the union agree to reasonable work rules and salaries |
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| (202398) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jul 21 10:36:15 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Jul 21 10:23:45 2010. How about the union agree to reasonable work rules and salariesWhat does that have to do with what is being talked about the "sale" of property?? Try again teach.... |
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| (202400) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jul 21 10:45:26 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Jul 21 10:23:45 2010. BTW you still havent gotten back to me on why you think tax papyers should be footing so much of teachers pensions, HypoCrite. |
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| (202473) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 21 17:10:43 2010, in response to Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jul 20 21:33:12 2010. Call it "Contracting out Routes" all you want, but I call it "Privatising" and that didn't work.Have you forgotten about Green Bus, Triboro Coach, et al? |
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| (202511) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Wed Jul 21 21:06:20 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 21 17:10:43 2010. Weren't some of the old private companies run by the same person/family? |
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| (202512) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Wed Jul 21 21:06:20 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 21 17:10:43 2010. Weren't some of the old private companies run by the same person/family? |
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| (202514) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jul 21 21:08:57 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 21 17:10:43 2010. It didn't work because the city did not want it to work |
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| (202518) | |
Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jul 21 21:16:54 2010, in response to Re: Austerity: Contracting out routes, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 21 17:10:43 2010. The NYCDOT, however, neglected to replace buses when they should have been replaced, which affected performance greatly...and local buses usually need to be replaced sooner. |
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