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| (171546) | |
Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 14:01:06 2009 Has anyone else noticed that alot of Manhattanville's 3rd Generation Orion 07.501 Hybrids, primarily in the 6600 Series are loosing their driver side rain guards?-Trevor www.ttmg.org |
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| (171549) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing Their Driver's Side Rain Guards |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 3 14:03:26 2009, in response to Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 14:01:06 2009. Nope. |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:04:35 2009, in response to Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 14:01:06 2009. When I had the QC last year this was a issue on the 6400's. They start coming lose at one end and hang. Then they fall off. I would just rip it off when it was hanging and give it to maintainence since it is a safety issue and buses can run without them.These buses are made so cheap, its just glued on, no screws. A few of them that were hanging have struck the tollbooth at the triboro bridge on the M60. |
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| (171579) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by daimlerbuses on Tue Nov 3 17:28:37 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:04:35 2009. And what other suggestion would you have to improve this situation, yet alone what makes you think they're cheap? Screws aren't the best on the exterior of vehicles, especially buses, because the screws will rust with exposure.Orion knows who they're dealing with, they aren't going to build buses with known problems that will come back to bite them in the ass. |
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| (171581) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:46:11 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by daimlerbuses on Tue Nov 3 17:28:37 2009. How about welding a lip across the top of the body?You must admit that molding peeling off a bus 5 years old is not expert craftsmanship. And how about the cracking frames on the NG's and the fire prone wiring on the drivers heaters? Good craftsmanship also? |
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| (171583) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 3 17:52:06 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:46:11 2009. SI cracked them. Don't blame Orion for that one. Tell SIR that if he votes for Molinaro, all the NGs get pulled...lol. |
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| (171584) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 17:59:15 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:04:35 2009. Ouch..OK thanks for the info. I thought maybe I was trippin' out when I saw this. Oh Boy Orion! |
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| (171586) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 18:17:04 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:46:11 2009. cracked frames...?Hold on..didn't the TA get ride of buses over cracked frames years ago? If the 07's are crap..why hang on to them? |
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| (171587) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:39:21 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 18:17:04 2009. The engine cradle/frame are bending and cracking.This is not a new issue with Orions. The 1993 series also had these problems but all 300 of them were retrofitted at 207 St repair yard. I really think that if we bought the 870's today we would have repaired them since maintainence has improved dramatically today. We do preventive work, campaigns, vendors come in, etc. Back in the early 80's we were lucky if the buses were fueled! |
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| (171588) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Q37SouthOzonePark on Tue Nov 3 18:40:31 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:39:21 2009. The 1990s also had this problem too right? |
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| (171590) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 18:44:23 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 17:59:15 2009. How about stop the bullshit, and make these companies buildgood buses, and not cheap shit boxes. The quality that these so call bus manufactures put into their products is ridiculous. Lets face it, buses are not manufactured like they use to be. Just look at the quality of the Flxibles at NJT, and see how long they have been in passenger service. Look at the quality of the MCI Classics that ran in NYC for almost 20 years. A city that has potholes, major traffic problems, and all kinds of weather related shit that was thrown at these buses. Yet these buses were lighter, stronger, and were built to withstand the rigorous traffic conditions of any city. This new technology that is being used for new buses, Orion, New Flyer, Nova Bus, and DesignLine can all ram it in their sactcho. MWAP |
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| (171594) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:50:43 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Q37SouthOzonePark on Tue Nov 3 18:40:31 2009. Yes. |
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| (171595) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:52:46 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 18:44:23 2009. Agreed 100%.I'd ad that NYC transit has to stop with the hybrid crap and focus on diesal buses. I'm sure there are technologies that exist or are emerging that produce less soot and polution. |
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| (171599) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 19:07:04 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 18:44:23 2009. IAWTPAlso, it not only depends on how well the manufacturing process was, it also carries onto the shoulders of the men and women who maintain them. |
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| (171600) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:07:14 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:52:46 2009. True that, and thanfully the new Nova Bus LF Artics will be diesel,but when manufactures start building buses with crazy glue and velcro, the transit agencies that buy these buses have a much bigger problem on thier hands then worring about how much soot and polution is being thown in to the air. Besides, I never liked any of this new shit that has hit the streets of New York since 1990. In my book, the last good bus that ran in NYC was the Classic. MWAP |
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| (171601) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 19:12:05 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:07:14 2009. To some people, the last good bus was the Fishbowls. Since I gre up riding RTS buses, the RTS to me is one of the most successful bus designs ever created.Since I've never rode an MCI Classic, I can't say about how the buses feel while riding them. |
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| (171603) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:17:21 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 19:07:04 2009. You have a valid point. Unfortunate that some of the MTA maintainancepersonal are shoe makers, and that is the reason that alot of these buses break down so much. Trust Me on this one, I have seen alot of OVCR cards for buses that have been written up for the same shit 2-3 times. MWAP |
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| (171604) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:25:32 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 19:12:05 2009. I would say that you are 95% right, I love the fishbowls, and was sorry to see them go, but the classic was a good bus. It was solid,and strong and took a ass whippin, and came back for more the next day. The RTS is a good bus, but the classics were better. MWAP |
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| (171605) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 19:27:00 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:17:21 2009. I tell road dispatchers and operators to stop making these "under the table" swaps to save roadcalls. Why do we want to save roadcalls and help the managers look good and the bus does not get officially checked out?NO ONE reads the OVCR cards! |
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| (171607) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 3 19:37:16 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 18:39:21 2009. Is this a systemwide NG issue? I'm surprised it hasn't come up before. |
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| (171608) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 19:53:53 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:25:32 2009. Wasn't the "Classics.." FISHBOWLS with a redesigned front/rear bulkhead,and new side windows..? |
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| (171609) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Nov 3 20:04:20 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:25:32 2009. Yeah - The Classic was sweet, but it makes sense as it was basically an updated fishbowl. |
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| (171611) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 20:11:18 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 19:53:53 2009. Yes, and that's why they were such good buses. There is no bus todaythat could roll on the same tires and perform as good as the classics. MWAP |
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| (171612) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Nov 3 20:14:45 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 19:12:05 2009. The MCI Classics that were at Yonkers were sturdy and fast. The MCI Classics that were at JFK were also speedy, but the ride quality was horrible. |
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| (171614) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 20:26:16 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 19:27:00 2009. They don't give a fuck. As long as the wheels on the bus go round,they put the bus out there and want you pick up people. The less road calls, the better management looks. I have had people complain to me about the bus making noise and shaking while the bus was moving. One guy told me that I should set the bus on fire at the end of my trip. MWAP |
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| (171616) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 20:32:49 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Nov 3 20:14:45 2009. That was a maintenance issue. No matter how good a bus is, therehas to be quality maintenance to kept the buses good. JFK's fault. MWAP |
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| (171618) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by MTA_SI on Tue Nov 3 20:43:38 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 17:04:35 2009. Daily on S.I. just at castleton at least 15 to 20 NG's are out of service to a defect which is considered more than minor or wear and tear. Its not unusal to see DCBUS 2 or 3 trucks at the depot daily. |
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| (171619) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by MTA_SI on Tue Nov 3 20:49:52 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:17:21 2009. Ditto that. I wrote the same thing up on an MCI's, I also make it in my log book i keep for my own protection, I had the bus again almost 3 weeks, later everything i wrote was still not fixed, and I refused the bus due to safety defects. Thats the reason i keep my own records of buses i drive, and major issues i had with bus. I have to protect myself and my career. |
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| (171622) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 20:52:26 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 3 19:37:16 2009. I found out when a superintendent from New Bus Procurement was with me on the fuel line looking for some NG's that were tripped. He was a real nice guy and we starting talking about the NG's.He proceeded to tell me that they are really bad buses and the problems that they were discovering. Including fire prone wiring, frames that were buckling and cracking and engine problems. |
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| (171624) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Nov 3 21:59:07 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 20:52:26 2009. This is going to be bad... I just hope they don't scrap too many RTS's and keeps enough of a reserve fleet if more NG's have problems. |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 21:59:52 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by MTA_SI on Tue Nov 3 20:49:52 2009. Glad to see you realize that you would want a road safe bus. |
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| (171626) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Tue Nov 3 22:01:53 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 19:17:21 2009. True. Say no more. |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 22:02:27 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by MTA_SI on Tue Nov 3 20:49:52 2009. There ya go..I did the very same thing working for Greyhound...The ONE TIME I ACCEPTED a bus that was "bad order"..I lost a rear tire on the Thurway....the WHOLE TIRE. NEVER did it again. |
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| (171629) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 22:15:46 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 20:52:26 2009. sad...How about somebody get their act together..and call them on this? If the buses are GARBAGE..WHY KEEP BUYING THEM? Don't you guys have several other suppliers now? NOVA[in NEW YORK STATE too]..NEW FLYER..NABI..even this new company,DESIGNLINE? How about "begging" MCI to restart the FLXIBLE METRO Program? Or the MTA design a bus ..get a company to BUILD IT? ORION is NOT THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE GAME...so why keep dealing with their crap? who's getting the kickbacks? |
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| (171630) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:24:34 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 20:52:26 2009. Mr. MaBSTOA, If you read between the lines as to what that Supt. told you, you can see that this is the TA's bad jugdement on buying these buses without testing them to the max. This is the same problem that happen with the Flxible 870 (#100) back in 1979. They get 1 demo bus and put this bus on an express route, and say this bus could work in our system. BULLSHIT!!! The only way to tell if a new type of bus will work is to put the bus through the works, heavy rush hour traffic conditions, heavy crowds of passengers, school trips, weather conditions, constant starting and stopping at bus stops. And this can only be done on major local lines. And 1 bus is not enough. The TA should have gotton their hands on 10 buses to test on different routes in the 5 boros for a month, and then they would know weather or not the bus could work in the system.MWAP |
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| (171631) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Nov 3 22:31:01 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 22:15:46 2009. Wasn't it Pataki that wanted Orion? I want NF back! |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 22:32:15 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 22:15:46 2009. Pataki's promise to those people way up there in New York.But I'm sure someone's getting paid somewhere. You know how it goes, a bus driver gets caught letting someone ride for free they get fired, a MTA board member gets caught steering million dollar farebox or bus contracts he pays a fine of a dollar! |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:37:54 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 3 22:15:46 2009. Sorry Edwards, but it's none of the above. The NYCTA is gettingmoney from the goverment for new equipment every year, and as long as the goverment sees the MTA going green, they will continue giving money to the MTA for buses that the goverment has no knowlege of the problems that these buses have. As for the other bus manufactures, they use the type of materiels and craftsmanship as Orion. And the TA don't give a fuck. If the problem gets that bad, the TA will sue the shit out of Orion. MWAP |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Nov 3 22:42:28 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:37:54 2009. It's the specifications and getting buses "as cheap as possible" that is the problem nowadays. We don't get buses built like they used to be because everyone wants the cheapest thing possible, and they retire them at age 12. While 20 year old buses were just about commonplace once upon a time, today it's an atrocity for a 20 year old bus to remain on the streets! |
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| (171636) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 22:46:22 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:37:54 2009. Pataki Orion |
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The MTA's Bus Problem |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:49:53 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:37:54 2009. Let's face guys, we could all talk about this problem until we areblue in the face, but nothing will change, these buses are hear to stay, and there isn't a danm thing that we can do about. As a bus operator, you get your bus from the yard man, look the bus over to see if the bus is safe for revenue service, make the sign of the cross, and pray to God that this will be a good day for you. MWAP |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:55:03 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Nov 3 22:42:28 2009. Hey Neofan, you give these buses too much credit, with the problemsthat the MTA now has with the Orion NG 7's, I'm not so sure that they will make it past 10 years. MWAP |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Tue Nov 3 23:31:07 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Tue Nov 3 22:24:34 2009. Remember that these are the same morons who ordered the R-44/46. |
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| (171643) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by rionOne on Tue Nov 3 23:55:49 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by MTA_SI on Tue Nov 3 20:43:38 2009. At least they are supporting or trying to support the product.-Trevor www.ttmg.org |
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| (171644) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Nov 4 00:14:19 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Nov 3 20:52:26 2009. I wonder if this is going to be corrected with the model year 2010 O7 NGs. |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Nov 4 00:22:46 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Nov 3 20:14:45 2009. Also Queens Surface's MCI Classics were retired when MTA take over/ |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Nov 4 00:23:55 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Nov 4 00:22:46 2009. They ran for a little bit under MTA Bus. The Triboro MCI Classics though never ran under MTA Bus. |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Wed Nov 4 00:35:10 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Nov 4 00:22:46 2009. Wrong. The Classics from QSC were renumbered by MTA. 9796 to 9821.5 Classics, Nos. 9822 to 9826 (Ex Liberty Lines 3077 to 3081) were place out of service. MWAP |
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| (171650) | |
Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Manwithaplan on Wed Nov 4 00:40:30 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Nov 4 00:23:55 2009. 1 did run for MTA Bus. Bus #788, which later bacame Command Bus 499,and later became MTA Bus 379. MWAP |
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Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing... |
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Posted by Q18-65PL on Wed Nov 4 00:47:49 2009, in response to Re: Manhattanville's Orions Losing..., posted by Manwithaplan on Wed Nov 4 00:40:30 2009. For buses put together so cheaply they are certainly not cheap to buy. |
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