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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 11:01:05 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 01:14:45 2009. When it first came out ez-pass required a $25 deposit for the cost of the tag and the chicago card cost $5. Although rfid had been around for ever in various forms(including all credit cards in europe since the late 1990's) the cost of the cards themselves has cost too much for transit agency to obsorb. Look at how many people buy a $10 metrocard and don't refil. Walmart has been working to get the cost to less then $2 a chip. Also it only makes sense for NYCT and any other agency if they can can the station agents |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 11:41:30 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 1 20:23:28 2009. It is just a matter of working out the fee struture per transaction for each card |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 11:58:37 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 11:01:05 2009. No, you are wrong. Where do you get this stuff from? Many transit agencies give away thousands of free RFID smartcards when they introduce them in order to allow all of their regular customers to obtain the card at no added cost. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 11:59:39 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 11:41:30 2009. That's the matter that is huge and is what we are talking about. |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:28:25 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 06:41:35 2009. lol, you the idiot. ha! |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:30:06 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 06:47:34 2009. No you are wrong. |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:51:45 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 03:28:21 2009. RFID isn't that widely used yet.WRONG. RFID is widely used right now in many different forms. Revenue sharing is a brutal process. The fees for the MTA to process MetroCard revenue for non-MTA carriers is substantial. How can revenue sharing be done without losing 5%-10% of the fare in transaction costs? If its a brutal process then Why is Bee Line, PATH, Airtrain using the MetroCard fare media. Those agency have made arrangements with MTA to cover a portion of the loss revenue. Its not that complex. NJT's systems are going to have to be able to keep up with processing things in real time. Batching will have to be continuous. On the TVMs, that is no problem. On a bus, it requires a reliable connection and no driver assistance. It is doable, but it is not cheap. Of course its not cheap. Look at the MetroCard when it was rolled out for the first time. Reliability issues will be fixed in no time when the transit agencies moving towards RFID smart cards. |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:53:40 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 06:50:08 2009. That's exactly what I have been telling the little shit.Stop being a baby for once. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:49:42 2009, in response to NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by TRANSIT JEFF on Sun Nov 1 19:50:10 2009. I'd rather a transit-only card. I don't want to have to take out my actual credit card to use on a daily basis for my transportation. And what about people, who for whatever reason, don't want to have or have no access to a credit/debit card? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:59:10 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by TRANSIT JEFF on Mon Nov 2 01:29:35 2009. I don't see a big benefit to this. With the notable exception of New Jersey/Pennsylvania and New Jersey/New York, there's really no benefit to the majority of people who use mass transit. Very few people will need to use the T in Boston and WMATA or SEPTA. Similarly, the number is few who would use NYCT and SEPTA, or SEPTA and WMATA. About the only place it makes sense is NJT, to operate with both SEPTA and NYCT. New Jersey is a unique situation where there are two major job centers outside the state that their residents commute to. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:00:55 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 06:44:53 2009. I don't see how.Every user has an account, and money flows to where the user uses the pass.EZPass being managed by a private company is the only difference I see. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:08:11 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 03:36:19 2009. RFID is VERY widely used. EZPass is RFID; freight cars are all tagged with RFID transponders, a lot of major retailers use it for warehouse-to-store inventory tracking, Exxon/Mobil's SpeedPass, all of these 'tap to pay' systems that started the discussion... |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:18:09 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 03:36:19 2009. "Revenue sharing is a brutal process. The fees for the MTA to process MetroCard revenue for non-MTA carriers is substantial. How can revenue sharing be done without losing 5%-10% of the fare in transaction costs?"Transaction costs for a customer as large as NYCT for credit card will be lower. Consider the current transaction costs the MTA is incurring in the form of the cost of useless station agents and the cost to install, maintain and service the MVM's. The swipe and go credit card solution is the way to go I seem to remember that the original plan for metrocard was for it to be administered by chase. the union of course block that at the cost of riders and taxpayers in the tens of hundreds of millions of dollars. As for people who do not have credit cards or debit cards, refillable debit cards can be issued. I have a debit card from chase for my transit benefit account. they charge me 90 cents a month. A small amount compared to how much I save each month |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:19:38 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:00:55 2009. The difference is that all the money is placed into E-ZPass's system. The transit agencies are looking to avoid managing a system. They want to use the same infrastructure as MasterCard and Visa. Highways/bridges/tunnels make money, so they can afford to build the infrastructure to collect and distribute money. NJT's issue with MetroCard style systems is the expense.NJT is the most practical of the regional agencies and the jump directly to accepting credit/debit cards is smart in my opinion. They do not have to create a network of pass distribution and eventually, they can eliminate the cash farebox all together. |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:20:12 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 03:36:19 2009. "EZ Pass is a real pain in the butt. The lag times are so bad that you will get all kinds of rubbish mailed to your house because they did not process the payment fast enough."In nearly 10 years, never had one problem with my ez-pass account.Not one. I even have my quarterly statements come electronic |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:25:27 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:18:09 2009. 90c a month times 12 months is $10.80 a year. That's almost five rides. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of giving away my money so that I can use my money. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:27:18 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:19:38 2009. So have the same states that are part of the EZPass compact include transit with it. It's already subsidized, the infrastructure is already there... |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:28:17 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:20:12 2009. Me either; though I have seen it take a month for some transactions to show up on my statement, I never got any notification of an unpaid toll if my EZPass was attached to my car. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:32:25 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:08:11 2009. RFID technology is old technology, but the smartcard application is not widely used. There is a difference between chips with read capability and chips with read/write/store capability. A lot of RFID applications today are equivalent to barcoding. It will need to do more than that while keeping costs down. I am not saying it isn't used, but all the systems you mentioned are CLOSED systems (you put your money/information in conventionally and then move it around). |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:33:52 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:28:17 2009. To be honest, besides the quarterly statements, I have not followed how long it took for a transaction to show up. Use the pass only a few times a month |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:38:43 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:32:25 2009. The RFID metrocard would not need any write capabilities at all. all it needs to be is an identification tax your right just like a bar code. The turnstyle authenticates the card in real time. In general, in store applications, a reject list is sent to the store for excluded cards. If the transaction is under a certain amount, the transaction is approved if not on the list.The mta needs middle where that checks to see if the user is on a monthly plan or unlimited ride plan etc. Complicated but nothing ground breaking. The mta waiting for the american credit card companies to roll out the rfid cards was a smart move. been uses in europe for years. |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 15:40:18 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:32:25 2009. So, Whats the big deal? Security issues?The cost will be down since a couple of the big cities in the US are already in the smart card technology. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:51:58 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:51:45 2009. "WRONG. RFID is widely used right now in many different forms."Are there more than 10 transit systems worldwide using RFID (smartcard) technology? I do not believe that is the case. We have had electric cars since the early 1900s, but we have yet to produce a financially viable one. Technology and application viability are two different things. You can't just say RFID is all over the place so therefore it will work in a transit application for our region. The hardware is usually the easy part. "If its a brutal process then Why is Bee Line, PATH, Airtrain using the MetroCard fare media. Those agency have made arrangements with MTA to cover a portion of the loss revenue. Its not that complex." The Bee-Line is receiving a subsidy specifically to accept MetroCard. I believe it is $7M per year. This is strictly to offset the transaction fees. PATH will probably replace its own card system with the MetroCard in the future. It is expensive to build and maintain infrastructure to handle a small volume of cards when it is simply easier to piggyback on the MTA's system. PATH sees this as cost reduction. Airtrain is $5 a pop to go a very short distance. They have enough profit to offset the fees. I was talking to the MTA about placing MetroCard on the 144 at one point. The X23/X24 bid also had information on it. I'm not shooting in the dark. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:53:20 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:49:42 2009. Then they pay a higher cash fare. See MBTA. |
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Posted by Ken S. on Mon Nov 2 15:55:38 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:53:20 2009. Or SEPTA. |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 16:00:22 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 06:44:53 2009. The revenue sharing details would be quite complicated, much more so than with "E-ZPass".You fail. The keyword is: subsidized. All the agency that uses EZ-Pass have been invested the system and it functions well. Like in the NYC Metro area with one fare media MetroCard: Bee Line, PATH, Airtrain, RI Tramway, MTA; all agree to revenue sharing. It's not that complicated. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 16:07:30 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 15:38:43 2009. READ current balanceWRITE fare debit STORE new balance |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:17:35 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 16:07:30 2009. No need for that. All info for your account as with any credit card is stored on a central server.Every hour a do not accept list is downloaded to the turn style of bus fare box that lists all cards allowed and disallowed . that is all that is needed. all info is stored centrally . Most credit card transactions are authorized but don't post for a few days after the transactions. As part of the deal the credit card companies will pay any transaction they approve that there is a problem with. since a subway transaction is small money they would work. |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:24:01 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:49:42 2009. If they don't want a debit card they pay a higher fareIf they don't have a debit or credit card account, then a system could be set up to allow for prepaid debit cards ala metrocard with the chips in them. this is a good deal for visa, mastercard because the cards could be used everywhere not just the subway thus visa/mastercard get extra revenue in fees for use of the card outside the subway. Why does the MTA have to pay for a duplicate payment system just to pad the payrole with station agent salaries. Spend the money on station security or extra bus or train service Sell visa or mastercard through a bank like chase get the tittle of the official card of the MTA. FYI I much rather wave a credit card where i am not liable for any illegal transactions then swipe a metrocard with a value if I get it stolen I am out for the money |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 16:27:41 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:51:58 2009. Are there more than 10 transit systems worldwide using RFID (smartcard) technology? I do not believe that is the case. We have had electric cars since the early 1900s, but we have yet to produce a financially viable one. Technology and application viability are two different things. You can't just say RFID is all over the place so therefore it will work in a transit application for our region. The hardware is usually the easy part.Read here: Wikipedia The Bee-Line is receiving a subsidy specifically to accept MetroCard. I believe it is $7M per year. This is strictly to offset the transaction fees. PATH will probably replace its own card system with the MetroCard in the future. It is expensive to build and maintain infrastructure to handle a small volume of cards when it is simply easier to piggyback on the MTA's system. No MetroCard will be obsolete in the near future as soon as MTA rolls out the smartcard in 2012. Of course its expensive to maintain and we have to invest money to get it easier maintenance on the system. Why are you downplaying when the transit agencies having a great opportunity right now for the future to collaborate in one smartcard fare media that works like credit card that will be accepted in many transit properties? |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:41:39 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:25:27 2009. I am saving $120 dollars a year in tax saving well worth it.How many rides a year does the mta looses(in dollars) for the cost of running the current metrocard sales operations. Station agents MVM cost staff to refill and repair the machines etc 90 cents a month per rider is not that much. With a larger pool of people in the program, the cost per person per month would be lower. The 90 cents also covers the costs to interact with my payrole provider What is the commission the mta pays to the metrocard resellers plus the cost to package and distribute the cards It is far higher than 90 cent a months per rider. Contact less cards run by an outside vendor could cut these cost big time. Fewer MVM refills, the end of the station agent to sell fares (replaced by station security) |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 2 17:36:30 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 13:53:40 2009. EZ-Pass , which I use and have in PA., won't post your account balances until the next month, actually the month after that in the beginning of the month. Are most agencies that way? |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Mon Nov 2 17:43:58 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:49:42 2009. IAWTP. My feeling is that I would prefer to have a dedicated smart card for riding transit as opposed to having to pull out my credit card every time I want to ride NJT, for example. At least, with a smart card (ie. WMATA's SmarTrip), my name and credit/debit card numbered aren't displayed for potential identity thieves. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 17:47:33 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Ken S. on Mon Nov 2 15:55:38 2009. Wait, SEPTA's not there yet! As a matter of fact, SEPTA is planning on offering "transit cards" for those who don't have credit/debit cards. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 2 17:49:27 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:41:39 2009. I'd like to see cash go away ,too. Riding SEPTA, I see a lot of things.(3) dollar bills for a base fare + transfer. ($2.75 actual fare) (3) dollar bills for a base fare + zone fare. ($2.50 actual fare) (4) dollar bills for a base fare + transfer + zone fare.($3.25 needed). Plus the fare shortages, short of two dollars, when using coins , and telling the driver,"Sorry". |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 17:50:58 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:24:01 2009. FYI I much rather wave a credit card where i am not liable for any illegal transactions then swipe a metrocard with a value if I get it stolen I am out for the money.Hmm? With a decent Smart Card, you can register it so if the card is stolen, you can call them up and get the value added to a new card. Besides, if for some reason your card is not with you, a passerby can spend a nice amount of money anywhere before you are able to report it missing. Fortunately it hasn't happened to me, but isn't it hard to prove you didn't make those purchases if this occurs? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 17:52:49 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 2 17:49:27 2009. Heh, SEPTA actually has a high percentage of users using tokens/transpasses/transfers than many other systems out there (NJT).I'd like to see SEPTA abolish zones completely ("One fare to anywhere!"), that that's likely never going to happen :(. |
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Posted by Ken S. on Mon Nov 2 17:53:32 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 17:47:33 2009. I meant in regards to the higher cash fare. |
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Posted by Ken S. on Mon Nov 2 17:54:38 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 17:52:49 2009. I'd like to see NJT do that also, but it will never happen. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 18:09:52 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by GOLD_12th on Mon Nov 2 16:27:41 2009. "Why are you downplaying when the transit agencies having a great opportunity right now for the future to collaborate in one smartcard fare media that works like credit card that will be accepted in many transit properties?"Simple. I don't think it should be their top priority right now. I understand why NJT needs to move now, but agencies with electronic fare collection right now need to hold off on buying anything major except buses and railcars. This isn't the right time. As it stands, the MTA is in very big trouble financially. It does not need to manage new big projects. It needs to take federal funds for NYCT and replace every pre-1996 bus it has...NOW. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 18:28:33 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 18:09:52 2009. NYC is in that nice place where they have an "advanced" system with the MetroCard that is JUST starting to get outdated. You are right in that it can hold off on having this as its top priority. However, this upgrade still needs to be held in high regard.With the Smartcard, I'm more interested in the possibility of a MidAtlantic card that integrates NJT, NYMTA, PATH, PATCO, SEPTA, and DART First State into using one card that can be read on the various systems. You may even add CT Transit at a later time as well, and others on the NE (DC Area, Boston, etc). With such a potentially great endeavor, the LAST thing you would want to do is rush through things. However, there needs to be constant discussion, and I think it would be great to have federal aid, as this could be something much bigger than what individual cities/transit agencies can manage alone. Maybe. |
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Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Nov 2 18:43:02 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Ken S. on Mon Nov 2 17:54:38 2009. With NJT though, you are talking about transportation within and into an entire state - one zone fares do not make any sense distance-wise... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 19:58:08 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 14:49:42 2009. I don't want to have to take out my actual credit card to use on a daily basis for my transportation.Why not? And what about people, who for whatever reason, don't want to have or have no access to a credit/debit card? Either a metrocard type card or a dedicated transit smartcard. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 20:10:45 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:00:55 2009. I don't see how.Every user has an account, and money flows to where the user uses the pass.Because each agency has both "unlimited ride" and "pay per ride" payment systems, and some agencies give discounts for buying PPR in bulk and others don't. They have to agree on who is going to get what money when purchases are made from different agency's machines and used on different agency's vehicles, and how the payment system will or will not allow multiple unlimited ride passes of different types from different systems to be loaded up and active at once. And the agencies need to see if they can agree on mega ride passes that allow rides on multiple agency's vehicles. These are all conversations that have not begun, AFAIK. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 20:13:18 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 15:00:55 2009. EZPass being managed by a private company is the only difference I see.It's spelled E-ZPass. You want to use E-ZPass as an example, when today if you use a foreign E-ZPass transponder to cross a TBTA toll facility, you will not get charged the discounted toll - you will get charged the full cash toll. What kind of sh!t is that? How is that in any way a positive role model for what we want to accomplish? |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Mon Nov 2 21:20:15 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 2 18:28:33 2009. IMHO, Boston may be stretching it a little bit. You may as well throw Rhode Island in there as well.At least with CT Transit (and, you can't forget HART, Norwalk Wheels, Bridgeport, SEAT, and the other systems that are either affiliated or connect to the ConnDOT-managed bus service), you have direct and indirect connections to MTA. Maybe in 10-15 years, a super-regional transit smart card could work; for now, we'll have to make do with the WMATA SmarTrip (which is the closest example to a regional "smart card" in the Northeast. Once MTA, NJT, and SEPTA get their respective systems fully operational, then you could see the regional plans kick in. Seeing as this is a major undertaking regardless of agency, every little step helps. |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 21:23:40 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by JAzumah on Mon Nov 2 15:53:20 2009. That's discriminatory, in my opinion. Financial situation should not affect the fare you pay. |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Mon Nov 2 21:24:33 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 20:13:18 2009. That kinda defeats any benefits for someone who commutes from New Jersey to Long Island and may have an E-ZPass transponder issued by the Port Authority or NJ Turnpike Authority who has to use an MTA Bridge or Tunnel.IINM, isn't the discounted fare policy the same with all participating E-ZPass agencies (or at least those that offer them)? |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 21:25:26 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 2 19:58:08 2009. Taking my card out that often just makes for that many more possibilities to lose the card. |
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Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE} |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Nov 2 21:27:00 2009, in response to Re: NJT's New fare collection system {UPDATE}, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Nov 2 16:41:39 2009. I have a similar plan at work, with no cost to me. |
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