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| New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan (163703) | |
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| (163707) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Sep 8 21:49:19 2009, in response to New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Andy on Tue Sep 8 21:41:21 2009. 1. Supply and demand, NJT refuses to provide adequate service to certain areas because the local officials won't pay-to-play with them.2. I'm not even sure about that. I don't even think they have set schedules. 3. The PABT is at capacity, and most of the Midtown traffic problems are caused by those yellow things that like to mow down pedestrians and no-name charter outfits. |
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Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by aznboy4305 on Tue Sep 8 21:52:09 2009, in response to New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Andy on Tue Sep 8 21:41:21 2009. 1.) Because this isn't a communist nation.2.) Not sure, but probably a lot better than what NJT is offering. 3.) Because this isn't a communist nation, the city has no say on who gets to use what streets and goes where. |
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Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Sep 8 21:54:58 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by aznboy4305 on Tue Sep 8 21:52:09 2009. Communism is irrelevant; however, there are issues such as exclusive franchises/concessions. |
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Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by metropod on Tue Sep 8 22:25:24 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by aznboy4305 on Tue Sep 8 21:52:09 2009. um, they have every say over who can and can't go somewhere
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| (163716) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Sep 8 23:01:53 2009, in response to New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Andy on Tue Sep 8 21:41:21 2009. "Why does NJ license these operators to compete with NJ Transit and the other subsidized bus operators?"They are licensed by the Feds. If it were up to NJ, they would not exist. "How do these operators' fares and schedules compare with NJT and the subsidized operators?" Their fares are lower. They are more frequent (in general) because the base owners get paid a rental rate per bus and they make more money flooding the market. "Why does NYC permit them to clog the streets of West Midtown?" There is no space available at the PABT. |
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| (163721) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Tue Sep 8 23:17:51 2009, in response to New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Andy on Tue Sep 8 21:41:21 2009. To add on to what Joel Azumah already mentioned, the jitney operating companies (dispatch companies who hold schedules which are then "hacked" out to jitney operators who pay a royalty fee to the dispatch entity for the schedule and a lease premium for the vehicle) apply for operating authority through the US DOT for an interstate license which is not regulated by the state.As for fares and schedules, most jitney companies arrange a loose demand-driven schedule which is adhered to by operators who work similarly to cab drivers work under the medallion owners - their shifts range from anywhere between 8-12+ hours a day - the most popular routes are the Nungesser routes (via Bergenline/Kennedy/Boulevard East), the Paterson routes (via Main Avenue) and the Jersey City routes (via Palisades and/or Kennedy to Journal Square). There are a handful of operators who lease space out of the PABT's lower level and 42nd Street street side such as Hudson Executive/Community Lines and the Pyramid (Galaxy Towers) operations into Hudson County. Others such as Express Service (Spanish Transportation) work off of surrounding street corners on 8th and 9th Avenues, laying over on side streets. The fare structure is usually around $.50 to a dollar cheaper than NJT and they provide (collectively) a more frequent and reliable service to mainly the hispanic and lower-income demographics who cannot afford the fares of NJT. Most operators utilize 20-30 passenger vans that are second-hand vehicles leased out by jitney entities to the drivers. As for NYC licensing, it is the same deal as curbside operators such as Bolt and Mega - most who are organized (but not all) apply for a license for loading and unloading, and pay a flat fee for use of the curb to the city. |
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| (163725) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 8 23:27:05 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by aznboy4305 on Tue Sep 8 21:52:09 2009. Because this isn't a communist nation, the city has no say on who gets to use what streets and goes where.Completely false. The city certainly does get to say who uses the curbs. |
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| (163914) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Sep 10 13:51:27 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by JAzumah on Tue Sep 8 23:01:53 2009. IINM, some of those buses (the better maintained ones) are actually private shuttles for residents of certain apartment buildings. |
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| (164020) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Sep 11 07:48:59 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by JAzumah on Tue Sep 8 23:01:53 2009. [They are licensed by the Feds. If it were up to NJ, they would not exist.]The alleged NJ attitude doesn't square with the existence of the intra-state jitney services along Bergenline Avenue which, I assume, need to be sanctioned by NJ and not the Feds. If NJ doesn't want jitneys, how do they operate from Nungessers to Jersey City? |
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| (164022) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Fri Sep 11 07:57:18 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Sep 11 07:48:59 2009. They operate with interstate authority through a permit obtained via the US DOT, that is the loophole everyone uses in order to obtain licenses to operate within the state - they can just as easily turn the bus for a run to the Port or the GWBBS, however that is not where the money is... |
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| (164023) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri Sep 11 07:58:00 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Sep 11 07:48:59 2009. Federal law states that if one interstate trip takes place on a route, it is an interstate route. North Fork Express used this to compete with Sunrise. All of the intrastate routes are simply short turns on their federal routes.So, under federal law, I could put federal buses on the X1, extend one trip per day to Hoboken, and keep the rest within the city and be a federal operation. |
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| (164025) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Sep 11 08:11:07 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by JAzumah on Fri Sep 11 07:58:00 2009. Thanks for the info and clarification. I am surprised NJ hasn't been able to close this loophole. |
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| (164034) | |
Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 11 09:12:05 2009, in response to Re: New Jersey buses in Mid-Manhattan, posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Sep 11 08:11:07 2009. No reason to close it. It's how physically-larger states get local service. It's usually cheaper for the state for an interstate carrier to take local passengers along its route than to have to possibly subsidize an in-state carrier to make the intrastate trip. |
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