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Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:16:56 2009

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Last month was the announcement that the 353 was replaced by contracted taxi service between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands for race track service.

NJT has now announced the rail line to the Meadowlands will open in June and be fully functional for all pre-season and regular season Giants and Jets games. This completely kills off the 353, although 351 PABT service will remain for Giants and Jets games as they did last year. NJT is offering a season-long fare pass (NJT Gameday Pass, $110) that can be used on any NJT service on a football game day to get to the stadium, including the 351.

The rail line starts at Hoboken, stops in Secaucus, and discharges at the Meadowlands, near the new stadium.

Another interesting addition is, on game Sundays, Metro-North will run a direct New Haven Line train from Connecticut all the way to Secaucus, using the Amtrak rails out of the Bronx to travel through Penn Station to NJ.

They really want you off the bus to the Meadowlands!

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 21:35:26 2009, in response to Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:16:56 2009.

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Will trains from Spring Valley, Suffern, and Port Jervis go to the Meadowlands too?

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(143437)

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:40:33 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 21:35:26 2009.

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From that webpage, it doesn't look like it. PVL customers will have to travel to Secaucus and double back on a Meadowlands train.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 21:46:27 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:40:33 2009.

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I guess that it's not that back, on the LIRR to go from Belrose to Belmont Park you have to double back all the way to Jamaica although a direct trip between the two can easily be done within 5 minutes by rail.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Mar 29 22:48:43 2009, in response to Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:16:56 2009.

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Will NJT cross-market the rail option from Penn Station to Secaucus on through to the Meadowlands along with the 351 or just keep it as is?

Also, are MNR trains running straight through Penn through the interlockings without stopping at Penn and where will those MNR trains be relayed at to layover and return?

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(143463)

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Mar 29 22:52:11 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Mar 29 22:48:43 2009.

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For MNR, since it would be on Sundays, I would imagine that one may be using an NJT consist the entire way under wire.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 23:02:44 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Mar 29 22:48:43 2009.

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Also, are MNR trains running straight through Penn through the interlockings without stopping at Penn and where will those MNR trains be relayed at to layover and return?

New Jersey Transit ALP/Comet sets are going to do the route and all trains to Secaucus Junction are going to stop at Penn Station for some reason.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by RiverLINE3501 on Sun Mar 29 23:06:25 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 23:02:44 2009.

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New Jersey Transit ALP/Comet sets are going to do the route and all trains to Secaucus Junction are going to stop at Penn Station for some reason.

The stop at Penn Station is help out picking up connecting passengers from the LIRR.


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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Sun Mar 29 23:54:29 2009, in response to Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:16:56 2009.

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Note that it said that for the football games. Nothing about Concerts, Basketball, Soccer matches, etc. 353 isn't dead. Besides, besides the train and 351, 353 was popular somewhat. We picked up at least 1,250 PER game. Personally, I don't think it'll go away for the next NFL season as they might keep it as a option but it's my opinion, so, I could be wrong about it too. We'll see.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by kcram3500 on Mon Mar 30 12:19:31 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by SJP7121 on Sun Mar 29 23:54:29 2009.

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The 353 was only intended as a fill-in until the rail line was complete. (The 351 ran to all Meadowlands events before last summer, not just football games.) Ridership to the track is obviously low enough that NJT felt the contract taxi service was sufficient. For arena events, you'll probably see limited service on the Meadowlands rail line and/or selected trips of the PVL stopping at the complex.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by ctrabs74 on Fri Apr 3 22:14:16 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Mon Mar 30 12:19:31 2009.

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Once the Nets move to Brooklyn, won't it really be a moot point? I highly doubt the Brendan Byrne Arena will continue to exist as it does now considering you have the new arena in Newark that would take a lot of the events away from the Meadowlands Arena (and, yes I know it's a different name now, but it's always the Brendan Byrne Arena to me).

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Fri Apr 3 22:17:56 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by ctrabs74 on Fri Apr 3 22:14:16 2009.

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But also remember by that point when the Meadowlands station is in full service mode, the Xanadu complex will be operational, so direct service to the Meadowlands will also yield demand aside from game days in the Fall and Winter.

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(144339)

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Apr 3 22:25:05 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Fri Apr 3 22:17:56 2009.

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But are there any plans to make the 772 a full-time route to Xanadu with expanded hours, or to run a route via Union City full-time via Xanadu (i.e., the 164)?

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(144356)

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Mac5689 on Fri Apr 3 22:59:27 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by ctrabs74 on Fri Apr 3 22:14:16 2009.

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the Nets are moving to Brooklyn???

last i heard the area that was to be built for them was canceled.



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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Sat Apr 4 03:09:51 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Mac5689 on Fri Apr 3 22:59:27 2009.

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In September 2006, the team and the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority announced an extension of their lease to keep the team in the Meadowlands until 2013, with a provision to leave as early as 2009 if the Brooklyn arena is completed. (Source: Wikipedia)

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(144400)

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Sat Apr 4 03:19:16 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Apr 3 22:25:05 2009.

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870 or myself haven't heard anything yet. 772, that's up to Academy if they wanna do it or not. Who knows what's going to happen? For all we know, they can make a entirely new route to go to Xanadu to NY via Union City and call it the 122 (Since there isn't any line named the 122). It's a possibility. Might save some $$$ for those that live in Union City/Jersey City/North Bergen/Guttenburg/West NY, etc... and have to go to NY or Secaucus to get a bus to the Stadium, maybe.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Apr 5 22:50:20 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by SJP7121 on Sat Apr 4 03:19:16 2009.

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Well technically since the #772 is part of the contract package Academy Express/Hillside 22 have with NJT, it would be up to NJT if they were to modify the service to service the Xanadu complex - in all actuality though, the primary market it would serve is the employee base it would have, it would not really serve visitors or patrons in its service profile - also historically, NJT has always been hesitant with modifications to the contracted routes, but then again if they feel demand warrants, it could happen....

I think a more realistic approach would be to have the #163 have one of the two schedules that typically operate during the discretionary and weekend on the base hour schedules to serve the complex, most trips serve union City and travel via 120 up to Paterson Plank - it could just jump into the complex without serving the entire Meadowlands facility and jump back onto 120.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 5 23:34:12 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Apr 5 22:50:20 2009.

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also historically, NJT has always been hesitant with modifications to the contracted routes, but then again if they feel demand warrants, it could happen....

Demand warrants the MCM10 running 20/7 with 30 minute headways, but it isn't running that way. But then again, they did reroute the buses when the Wal-Mart opened in Rockaway. Although I'm sure Dover might have put some pressure on NJT to do that seeing as not routing the bus to the Wal-Mart would probably have put another 100-200 taxis on their streets.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:02:17 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 21:35:26 2009.

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No.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:03:41 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Sun Mar 29 23:06:25 2009.

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No, that's not true. Where did you get that from? Are you just guessing on that, instead of actually knowing the truth?

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:07:37 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Mar 29 23:02:44 2009.

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There's a good reason why they are stopping there. Once again, my blog explains everything. But some not so smart individual here refused to link to my blog post when this whole topic came up a while back, and instead claimed he found the info on his own, when that wasn't true. And because of it, people here only got less than half of the information my blog provided.

Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!



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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:08:14 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Mar 29 22:48:43 2009.

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Will NJT cross-market the rail option from Penn Station to Secaucus on through to the Meadowlands along with the 351

Yes.

Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!



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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:12:22 2009, in response to Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Mar 29 21:16:56 2009.

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NJT has now announced the rail line to the Meadowlands will open in June

How did you find this link? NJT has not linked to it from their website yet AFAIK. I was waiting for well over a month now to post it only after NJT had added a link to it from their site.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by kcram3500 on Mon Apr 6 08:35:24 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:12:22 2009.

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Was a front-page headline on njtransit.com the day I made the OP (3/29) - part of the "revolving billboards". I guess I got lucky on that one.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Mon Apr 6 11:51:44 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Apr 5 22:50:20 2009.

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They weren't hesitant when they changed the routing of the 86 rush hour trips last year when that route used to go all the way to Nunguessers (Kennedy & Bergenline) since all trips now begin at 49th and Bergenline Ave. HBLR Station, which I hate since everytime I do the 84P, I get 10 customers at almost every trip, asking why did they get rid of the 86P, why can't they get a bus to exchange place in the morning from the old stops.......(AND THE CHANGE WAS ON AUGUST 30th, 08!!! AND THEY'RE STILL COMPLAINING!) You have no idea how many times I tell them to contact NJT and voice their opinion since NJT doesn't really listen to the drivers. Plus, before I even started working here, the 181 used to go all the way to Hoboken before it started at 49th/Bergenline Ave. HBLR Station. Plus, and 870b, you might remember this or not but didn't NJT changed the 89 a while ago? I still see street signs on New York Ave for the 89 bus.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Mon Apr 6 11:55:25 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 07:08:14 2009.

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They were doing that anyway. I did the 351 a lot of times and I was told that anyone with a 353 ticket can get on the 351 without paying, since they pretty much paid for their fare with the 353.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Apr 6 12:38:15 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by SJP7121 on Mon Apr 6 11:51:44 2009.

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The main point there is that the #84,86 and the 89 are all NJT routes operated directly by you guys out of the Meadowlands - you know this already, but they did that so they could feed more people onto the HBLR and also in the process reduce operating costs by shorting runs (the 86), maximizing service on existing routes by modification (the 89) and outright elimination to save on operating costs and infrastructure (the #181). Out of all of them though, I agree with you about the #181, there should be more than just 2 runs a shift for the morning and evening - then again, the #156 practically parallels the #181 the entire way down, I would have preferred them extending the #188 to 49th.

In terms of what I was saying about the subcontracted services, look at the packages operated by Community (Bergen/Passaic local), Academy/Hillside #22 Hoboken(Bergen/Passaic + #2,#22,#23,#88) Academy Perth Amboy (lower 800s) and Veolia (upper 800s) - the only time they would remotely modify the service is if there was a new retail or employment location (thus why it is possible the #772 may serve the Xanadu but unlikely), the schedules and headways for the most part do not change and the route structure with that exception does not change.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Flxible870b on Mon Apr 6 15:00:47 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by SJP7121 on Mon Apr 6 11:51:44 2009.

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The 86, 89, and 181 lines were all changed at the same time.

89 used to be a rush hour line that used to end at 77th st and go to Hoboken via Congress st in Jersey City. It was replaced by the 22x which is stupid because it finished at the 48th st HBLR Station.

86 used to be a Bergenline bus that would start from 91st all the way to Newport Mall. The Park Ave Trips would only occur during rush hour.

181 would start in Hoboken and go all the way to the GW Bridge. It was replaced by the 89 line.


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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Apr 6 15:03:47 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Flxible870b on Mon Apr 6 15:00:47 2009.

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Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the purpose of the 22X to serve the Observer Highway/Congress Street section of Hoboken/JC that was left unserved after the 89 got rerouted to the former #181 route?

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Flxible870b on Mon Apr 6 17:43:22 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Apr 6 15:03:47 2009.

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U Are Correct My Man

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 6 21:26:30 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by kcram3500 on Mon Apr 6 08:35:24 2009.

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Thanks. I'll have to see if it shows up for me.

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Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!

Posted by SJP7121 on Tue Apr 7 00:48:24 2009, in response to Re: Kiss (the rest of) the NJT 353 goodbye!, posted by Flxible870b on Mon Apr 6 15:00:47 2009.

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Now I understand why those new NABI buses announces the 86 whenever it passes Bergenline and 61st Street.....man, I was getting annoyed by that.

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