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| N20/21 intra-Queens question (123778) | |
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| (123782) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 12:07:31 2008, in response to N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 11:10:15 2008. This is how I remember it:Eastbound--city line (you get on in Queens going east, you're expected to stay on until after entering Nassau) Westbound--they'll pick up in Queens up until 238th I think. I remember Little Neck Parkway mentioned but don't remember in what context. But definitely west of 238th I'm pretty sure it's no pick-up toward Flushing. This is on the back of the LI Bus Map, which I don't have handy. |
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| (123783) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 12:10:04 2008, in response to N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 11:10:15 2008. City Line both ways. |
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| (123784) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 12:12:40 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 12:10:04 2008. That seems to be what it is now, based on looking at the current policy at mta.infoAt some point, however, I know there were exceptions westbound, if they still don't exist. I'm almost certain that Little Neck Pkwy and some other spots were once pick-up points westbound (see my previous post). |
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| (123786) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 12:44:50 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 12:12:40 2008. Thanks to you and Joe Saitta for the replies. My recollection is that whether de facto policy or not, some intra-Queens travel was possible, but I wasn't sure.I assume that the policy has to do with the LIB funding formula. Still, it seems a bit strange that before the economy went down the toilet, the Q12 was proposed to be extended to Great Neck LIRR station, while the N20/21 can't be used to decrease service intervals between Bell Blvd and Glenwood St. |
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| (123788) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 13:22:22 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 12:44:50 2008. I know you asked specifically about the N20/21 but according to Wikipedia there are exceptions to the rule on other lines such as the N8, N24, and N31-33 (these use streets that are right on city lines and not near any NYCT routes).I rarely use LIB but I can understand the policy. Many routes, especially the N20, are EXTREMELY long, and I can understand their desire to keep anyone who doesn't NEED the route away from the route. |
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| (123791) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:35:43 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 12:12:40 2008. I drove that line for 23 years. Not in my time. And I'm pretty sure I'm a lot older than you. |
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| (123792) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:37:15 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 12:44:50 2008. Strictly rumors, thoughts or proposals. |
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| (123793) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:44:41 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 13:22:22 2008. N33 picks up only eastbound, discharges only westbound. N24 shares with Q36 from 225 Street both ways to the City Line. Remember the NYC/Nassau County border runs right down the center of Jamaica Avenue / Jericho Turnpike from about 225 Street eastward to 257 Street (City Line). No information on N8 since I never drove that route, although I believe it's entirely in Nassau County. |
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| (123795) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:17:06 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:44:41 2008. Thanks for the info.As for N8, I suppose that maybe what the source meant was that it does pickups on Hook Creek Blvd? |
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| (123796) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:22:29 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:37:15 2008. Quite true. Q12 extension to Great Neck LIRR station was proposed to go into effect September 2008. Obviously that did not happen. (In the same round of service increases that were proposed but almost immediately withdrawn, Q79 service was to have been extended to Floral Park LIRR station). |
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| (123798) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Nov 18 14:36:03 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:22:29 2008. Yeah, like that'll ever happen. Those bastards in Floral Park would do anything to keep the bus away. I would have loved to see the Q12 in Great Neck though |
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| (123799) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Nov 18 14:36:19 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:35:43 2008. Do you know Izzy? |
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| (123800) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:48:44 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Nov 18 14:36:03 2008. Those bastards in Floral Park would do anything to keep the bus away.The Village of Floral Park would indeed do what it could to oppose the move. And its residents are indeed far more politically powerful than those in neighboring areas. Not sure that too many would choose to board LIRR there, though - it's zone 4 as opposed to zone 3 at Little Neck. I would have loved to see the Q12 in Great Neck though Not clear to me why you'd want to see that, though. The main purpose of such an extension would seem to be to deny LIRR revenue, since Great Neck is in zone 4, but Little Neck in Queens County is zone 3. It's also unclear why NYCT should extend the Q12 when instead the N20/21 could be charged with the task. |
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| (123804) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Nov 18 15:02:55 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:48:44 2008. N20/N21 should remain closed door in Queens. The routes are too long and asking LIB to provide buses for some Great Neck-Flushing Queens local service is not something LIB needs to be getting into. Extending the Q12 with better limited service is what is needed. |
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| (123808) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Nov 18 15:23:06 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:17:06 2008. The N8 runs along the border and is not closed door on any portion of the route, you're allowed to get off the N24 after around 225th Street I believe. |
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| (123811) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 15:47:38 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Nov 18 15:23:06 2008. My admittedly non-official source, is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_routes_in_Nassau_County,_New_York and it mentions that:The N8 runs along Hook Creek on its Queens side (I think the line is the middle of the street) going south but is open door at all times For pick-up and drop-off procedures, 225th and east is considered Nassau in both directions on the N24 The N31, N32, and N33 do not do any closed-door: all open-door Now if the source is wrong, which it very well may be, I'm interested in the truth. |
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| (123814) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 16:01:31 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 13:35:43 2008. http://www.mta.info/libus/routes/n3132/n3132map.htmhttp://www.mta.info/libus/routes/n33/n33map.htm The bottom of these pages read: ". . .However, westbound Queens customers may board between Little Neck Parkway through 239th Street." Since this is on pages for routes that don't go near those two streets, I imagined that it was once system-wide policy? I guess not? (This sentence is left out of the N20/21 and many others). But why would it be there in the first place then, and on the Far Rockaway routes? |
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| (123818) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Metro Man on Tue Nov 18 16:14:17 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 14:48:44 2008. A plan was in place to have the Q 12 extend into Great Neck but the Village of Great Neck did not want the extra buses at the RR Station saying there is not enough of room for more buses. I think the Village of Great Neck stopped this move from happening. |
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| (123822) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Andy on Tue Nov 18 16:29:58 2008, in response to N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Nov 18 11:10:15 2008. N20/21 has always used City Line/Glenwood Street as its cut-off point, even when it was a Schenck Transportation Corp. route prior to 1973. West of City Line no pick-ups on WB buses; no drop-offs on EB buses. Same thing on the Hillside Ave., Jericho Tpke, Hempstead Tpke., and Merrick Road routes even when they were privates (Schenck and Bee Line) prior to 1973. That's why persons who live in Queens near the City Line will often use the LI Bus vs. NYCTA - faster trip, even in the old days when the fare was higher.The Far Rockaway routes have no such Queens/Nassau rule since they are inside Queens for a very short stretch. However the N33 is closed door within Long Beach to avoid competing with the City of Long Beach's West Loop route - no drop offs westbound, no pick ups eastbound. |
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| (123823) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 16:41:17 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 15:47:38 2008. "Now if the source is wrong, which it very well may be, I'm interested in the truth. "Beautiful ridiculous statement by you. Did you think I lied about the N33 and the N24? I drove those routes and have 23 years of service. Of course, you have more faith in Wilkopedia; that publication written by non-bus operators, and you believe their "truth." In my initial response to you, I stated I didn't know anything about the N8. Then I stated the N24 accepted eastbound passengers starting at 225th Street, exactly the same as the Wilkopedia. As to the N33, it is closed door in Far Rockaway, except to pick up eastbound and discharge westbound. Wilkopedia is wrong, at least as of the last time I drove it. As to the N31 and 32, which was not mentioned in your first post, there is no closed door operation anywhere. I appreciate your attempt at calling my answer a lie. This falls into the same childish category as those attempting to call recent photos I posted as having been "photoshopped." I stopped posting photos, and I was going to start posting a long series of beautiful historic Nassau County pre-MSBA photos. Now, because of your ignorant, callous statement about my not telling the truth I will discontinue answering any and all other questions. There are a number (quite a number, from what I can tell) of those who challenge everything posted here. It's not worth the effort to someone like myself who has the experience and tries to help. Let the children and their ignorant mouths run wild! You children are all the experts..... |
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| (123826) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Nov 18 17:18:34 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 16:41:17 2008. "I know you asked specifically about the N20/21 but according to Wikipedia there are exceptions to the rule on other lines such as the N8, N24, and N31-33 (these use streets that are right on city lines and not near any NYCT routes)."That is a quote from my original post, which I believe you are referring to. You may have misread the 33 for a 32. I DO trust your experience any day of the week over Wikipedia information. I take Wikipedia for what it is: what at least one person thought to post. That person could be right or wrong, and since I don't know who that person is, I brought that info into this thread making clear twice in that post that I did not trust it so much when I said "admittedly un-official source" and later ". . .the source is wrong, which it may very well be. . ." I am on your side, since you seem to be the best source for information based on your 23 years of experience (which I did not know about before my previous post). |
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| (123833) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Metro Man on Tue Nov 18 17:42:52 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Nov 18 16:41:17 2008. The N8 runs on hook creek blvd south of Merrick Blvd.and Ocean Ave north of Merrick Blvd.which is on the Queens Nassau border.There are no restrictions on picking up passengers in either direction.On the N 31/32 going back to when they had zones the fare changed from zone to zone but they always picked up in both directions. The N 33 never picked up east bound in Long Beach or West bound for passengers getting off in the city of Long Beach. The city of Long Beach Buses picked up those passengers.It is still in effect today.Joe does have the correct information as he usually does. |
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| (123836) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Nov 18 17:55:50 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Metro Man on Tue Nov 18 16:14:17 2008. With the frequencies of the Q12, I can buy that argument. Buses are always lined up on layover in front of the hotel I work at. |
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| (123928) | |
Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Wed Nov 19 08:18:59 2008, in response to Re: N20/21 intra-Queens question, posted by Metro Man on Tue Nov 18 16:14:17 2008. A trivial point, but the Great Neck LIRR station is actually in the Village of Great Neck PLAZA. The Village of Great Neck is about a mile due north.Now let me stop before a whole tortured discourse on New York State government works. |
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