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| Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction (111902) | |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:53:00 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:42:51 2008. Actually, the 181 is mostly disappearing (reduced to a rush-hour line), and the 86 is being cut back to 49 at all times. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:54:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders., posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 11:13:46 2008. When there is a special event...the 164 only stops on Route 120. Now, I'm not sure about the 703 line. |
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| (112120) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:54:46 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:52:34 2008. NJT likely can never offer a casino package. |
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| (112122) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 23:56:13 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:45:56 2008. However, the 351 may fit the bill of special event service that was quashed in DC and Baltimore???????? How????????? Now, the difference between NJT and WMATA/MTA Maryland is that unlike the TA's in Baltimore and DC, many of NJT's buses are NOT purchased with federal funds, but rather, most of NJT's (and subleased by NJT buses) are owned by foreign banks, mostly in Europe. As such, federally funded equipment is not usually used on the line. BTW, the MTA doesn't use federal funds to buy buses either. So the law ONLY pertains to transit agencies using buses purchases with Federal funds? |
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| (112123) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:56:15 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:42:51 2008. They have made massive cuts already. Most Dover-Hoboken trains are gone, Great Notch is slated to be closed as some point, Sunday RVL service has been cut, the weekend NWK-HOB trains are gone. To name a few things they have done. |
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| (112124) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:57:35 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:54:46 2008. What do you think the ACES is going to be? |
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| (112126) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:05:12 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:57:35 2008. And the vehicles will be under private ownership. |
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| (112127) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:06:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 23:56:13 2008. Unless I'm reading the original statement wrong...I may be, a correction is desired if that is the case. |
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| (112128) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:06:36 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 23:56:13 2008. Unless I'm reading the original statement wrong...I may be, a correction is desired if that is the case. |
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| (112131) | |
Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by oldman on Wed Aug 20 00:29:46 2008, in response to Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Tue Aug 19 22:38:34 2008. I had a photo of a NJ Transit Buffalo @Miami Beach |
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| (112132) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Wed Aug 20 00:36:21 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Aug 19 23:36:08 2008. Having buses stop at SEC would open up countless opportunities for intra-state bus/rail trips that currently you'd have to go into NYC and backtrack, making such trips impractical.The 319 is one such example - a person in Ridgewood can hop a train to SEC and catch the bus. What NJT is doing now with the 351 is also a step in the right direction. While game patrons from NYC would be loosing a one-seat ride, they can still get to the Meadowlands easily, and now that the bus originates operates to/from Secaucus, people from within NJ can now get to the Meds much easier via public transit. I think in time Secaucus Junction will become more and more exploited (in a good way of course!!!) Right now, there is a new apartment complex being built nearby called the XChange, which is within walking distance, and also will offer a shuttle to the station IINM. What would also be a good idea is a circulator/shuttle bus within the town of Secaucus, connecting the Junction area, downtown/Secaucus Plaza and Harmon Meadow/Mill Creek. Right now, there is nothing connecting these places. |
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| (112133) | |
Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Wed Aug 20 00:39:07 2008, in response to Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Tue Aug 19 23:24:03 2008. Would you have any copies of those brochures that you could possibly scan?I would love to see them!!! |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 00:40:13 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:06:36 2008. Which original statement? |
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| (112135) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by 9 local on Wed Aug 20 01:16:47 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 13:06:54 2008. How are you going to pull together 30 buses by September 4th when you only have one right now. |
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| (112139) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Wed Aug 20 02:44:55 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by 9 local on Wed Aug 20 01:16:47 2008. That's just for the 144, he has other operations. |
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| (112140) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 04:41:04 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:06:01 2008. NJT uses federal funds, but does the sale/leaseback stuff to free up cash (i.e. the 20% portion would not have to be paid all at once). It applies to any transit agency using any federal capital funds for anything, including the MTA. Both of them use federal money for other bus facilities, such as garages and park & rides. |
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| (112141) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 04:42:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:52:14 2008. 80% of the money is federal...20% came from the sale/leaseback. |
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| (112142) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 04:46:06 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by 9 local on Wed Aug 20 01:16:47 2008. We did a 40+ bus move in 2005 for a contract. It wouldn't be the first time.Not sure if we would need all 30 buses either. I doubt that on a weekday. |
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| (112143) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 04:46:06 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by 9 local on Wed Aug 20 01:16:47 2008. We did a 40+ bus move in 2005 for a contract. It wouldn't be the first time.Not sure if we would need all 30 buses either. I doubt that on a weekday. |
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| (112145) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:20:43 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by 9 local on Wed Aug 20 01:16:47 2008. Corporate Express, which does the IKEA Brooklyn shuttle, cobbles together a bunch of local charter companies, one of which has its garage within a few blocks of IKEA Brooklyn, to run the service.Presumably, Joel could do the same thng. |
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| (112146) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:24:50 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JohnnyMints on Wed Aug 20 00:36:21 2008. Now, there is one way in which I could see the 351 staying...as a shuttle from SEC Junction to Xanadu...with the 351 and the 164 being rerouted to serve it---and the 163 and/or 164 possibly serving Union City full time (except for Midland Park express runs from the 50s series gates) to provide service to Xanadu, along with the rerouted 351 and an extended 703 (extended to Xanadu). |
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| (112147) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:25:24 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:24:50 2008. Oh, and the 351 would likely get an intrastate route number...77 is open. |
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| (112148) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 09:31:02 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:49:01 2008. The lease-back has nothing to do with the initial purchase. In that program, the offshore investors are only buying time for the tax write-off (they buy the value of the bus for several years, then the title returns to NJT). Washington is still footing the initial purchase price. |
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| (112150) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:39:44 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 09:31:02 2008. However...the current 319 stock was purchased with COPS...not federal money...and I believe the NABIs and MLVs are also being purchased with COPS also...not involving federal money. |
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| (112152) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 09:49:07 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 00:05:12 2008. Of the same casinos that currently offer bonus packages to bus tours. |
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| (112153) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 09:50:35 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Wed Aug 20 02:44:55 2008. How many buses does Joel have period? |
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| (112156) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 10:04:18 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 21:09:06 2008. Charter and empty buses are prohibited before 9AM; but is that service considered a charter? Or was the bus empty? |
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| (112158) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 10:20:03 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 10:04:18 2008. Megabus is allowed in the bus lane. |
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| (112159) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 10:26:18 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 09:49:07 2008. However...the private ownership is significant. |
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| (112163) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 11:14:37 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 10:20:03 2008. Then in this case, it is likely that the bus was empty. It's also possible that the officer was misinformed. |
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| (112164) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 11:50:19 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 11:14:37 2008. It is likely that the bus was empty and deadheading to Manhattna to start its day.(IMO, Coach USA should move Megabus.com to the Gray Line New York facility---a stone's throw from the Lincoln Tunnel, instead of Olympia Trails in Elizabeth. |
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| (112166) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by 167T on Wed Aug 20 12:05:46 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 11:14:37 2008. PA cops misinformed?!?!? No way, they are placed on this earth by GODand have knowledge of the entire world, no, the entire universe. They can't do anything wrong!! (PA cops are very misinformed...Guiliani was right when he wanted to eliminate the Port Authority) PA cops cant' even get along with NYPD...I cant' get into this right now or I'll go on and on and on and..... |
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| (112170) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 13:02:49 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:25:24 2008. 300s can be used for intrastates. All the contract routes are 300s (e.g. the UPS runs to Secaucus, etc.) and they've been used for other in-state special service routes (Airlink was 302, the Newark shuttle was 303, the 325 Vince Lomardi-Newark, the Port Imperial spurs). |
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| (112171) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 13:06:30 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Aug 20 09:39:44 2008. All of the Metro Ds were initially acquired that way. I know some of this year's NABIs are slated as leasebacks, but I haven't seen a statement that all 1145 are. |
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Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 13:14:40 2008, in response to Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JohnnyMints on Wed Aug 20 00:39:07 2008. I have looked for them recently, but I don't think I have them any longer... I have a couple other places to check, but it doesn't look good. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 13:34:45 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 13:02:49 2008. And I'm sure that NJT has 77 vacant for a reason. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 13:55:25 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 13:34:45 2008. I didn't even know NJT had a system. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 14:22:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 13:55:25 2008. NJT's numbering is pretty straightforward... this is the general pattern, with some scattered exceptions:1-49 -- Newark-area locals and overflow from Hudson County 50-59 -- Union County locals 60-69 -- longer routes south and west from Newark 70-79 -- longer routes north and west from Newark 80-89 -- Hudson County locals 90-99 -- Essex County "crosstowns" 100-109 -- Essex County-NYC 110-119 -- Union County-NYC 120-129 -- Hudson County-NYC 130-139 -- Monmouth/Ocean County-NYC 140-169 -- Bergen County-NYC 170-189 -- GW Bridge routes 190-199 -- Passaic County-NYC 200-299 -- previously unassigned, GoBus-25 is assigned as 250 300-399 -- long-distance, park & ride, and special service 400-449 -- south Jersey interstate to Philly and Delaware 450-499 -- south Jersey locals from Camden 500-549 -- Atlantic City locals 550-599 -- south Jersey longer-distance and special service 600-649 -- Trenton-area locals 650-699 -- not currently assigned 700-749 -- Passaic County locals 750-799 -- Bergen County locals 800-849 -- Middlesex/Monmouth County locals 850-899 -- internal numbers of Morris County locals, WHEELS minibus routes 900-999 -- WHEELS routes |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 20 15:22:23 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 14:22:01 2008. That's a heck of a lot better than what we have in NYC, only SI has an actual system in place, and Manhattan has a partial system. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Aug 20 17:42:48 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Aug 20 14:22:01 2008. Thanks for posting that. |
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| (112206) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:14:20 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:41:29 2008. Why should the privates howl? They own the lions share of the Atlantic City service as it is. NJT has the crumbs! The Winter # 319 schedule is a disgrace. It goes into effect in a couple of weeks. |
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| (112207) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:17:44 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:52:34 2008. I never said anything about casino packages. The # 319 is a line run and always has been. All I said was that it should have as an option, the ability for passengers to transfer at Secaucus Jct. or continue on to the PABT. |
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| (112209) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:22:25 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:57:35 2008. Yes, but that is being paid for by a group of Atlantic City casinos. NJT is operating it for them under contract. And ACES owns the multi-level rail cars for that service too. They bought them from Bombardier, using the NJT specs. ACES will also pay for the leased locomotives from Amtrak. |
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| (112212) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 21:23:03 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:17:44 2008. However if NJT decides to do so, ACES could stop at SEC and the casinos are paying for that. A SEC stop on the 319 could serve to test the market with the idea that it would be replaced by ACES. |
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| (112213) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 21:25:22 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:22:25 2008. Which as I told Adam M. offer bonus packages to the private bus carriers traveling to the casinos. I know about this, I used the Lakeland runs to AC to check out NJT's South Jersey operations. The casinos could cut the bus packages to further use of ACES. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 21:27:35 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:14:20 2008. It will be ACES stopping at SEC more then the 319 stopping at SEC they'll howl about. Lakeland is trying service to Mount Airy. I don't know how many other carriers are willing to try other places like Mount Airy or Empire City. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Aug 20 21:28:18 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 21:23:03 2008. ACES will not stop at Secaucus Jct. They are in total control of where the stops will be. Right now, it will be Atlantic City, Newark and Penn Station in New York. Hopefully, NJT will someday operate a regular rail service from Atlantic City to Newark, using conventional NJT equipment and making stops at various stations along the route. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 23:47:24 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Wed Aug 20 21:25:22 2008. Doubtful. No one is going to Penn Station to go to AC when a bus stops in their neighborhood and if the buses don't have the packages, the people aren't going. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Aug 21 01:23:05 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Wed Aug 20 23:47:24 2008. Not to mention those charter bus rides. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 21 08:07:47 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:26:07 2008. and I also stated that 13' is the POSTED height limit, but it may not be the REAL height limit, which is likely 4-6 inches more.Of course, there's a good reason for this. If the actual height is 13'4", and if the posted height were the same, someone with a vehicle 13'2" tall could expect to drive through. If the road were then resurfaced and the headroom reduced to (say) 13'1", you can guess who would be liable for your impromptu open-top bus. However, if the actual height is 13'4", but the posted height is 13'0", then the road can be resurfaced without worrying about getting sued. I'm not sure that explicitly allowing operations of slightly over-height vehicles on a day-to-day basis is a sensible idea. I hope there's some sort of waiver whereby the bus company takes responsibility for its buses roofs. |
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