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| Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders. (111902) | |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:42:18 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders., posted by QM18Express on Tue Aug 19 10:23:27 2008. It says "advance tickets" will be available at Secaucus. To me that says that day-of tickets would not be sold there. However, I now believe that you will be able to buy shuttle bus ticket at Secaucus on game day. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:43:10 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 11:08:56 2008. How is this a charter service? |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:43:57 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 11:36:16 2008. I now believe you will be able to purchase shuttle bus tickets at Secaucus when you arrive. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:02:48 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 10:35:31 2008. Yes, but the TD925 already goes through the Lincoln Tunnel on its regular MegaBus runs to Baltimore. So no proff is necessary. |
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| (112018) | |
Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 13:06:54 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 11:08:56 2008. Incorrect.I am going to investigate the feasibility of providing the direct service to the Meadowlands. It would be a great complement to the 144 operation as well as other sectors. Let me give you a little hint: MTA buses will not be forced to meet the interstate commerce regulations by litigation. The USDOT will be forced by Washington to do it after this fall's events. Let me give you another hint: The S89 will die at the hands of New York STATE or CITY officials and our anticipated date of execution is January 2009. There were both state and federal laws broken and both have implications on the budget. The officials that kill it will allow the MTA to conduct the execution as a budget balancing mechanism in order to save face. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:13:15 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:02:48 2008. It's provided anyhow. Someone may ask in the future, and there it is, nicely sourced, for all to see. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:13:32 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 13:06:54 2008. Incorrect.Thanks. Because I didn't think it had anything to do with the FTA charter rules. Let me give you another hint: The S89 will die at the hands of New York STATE or CITY officials and our anticipated date of execution is January 2009. There were both state and federal laws broken and both have implications on the budget. The officials that kill it will allow the MTA to conduct the execution as a budget balancing mechanism in order to save face. I'm bookmarking this post!!!! |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:13:58 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:13:15 2008. But you just showed why it would NOT fit. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:15:15 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:38:16 2008. No, I don't. It's speculation, just like your speculation about the reasoning being the PABT construction. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:19:19 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:43:10 2008. It's a special event service, as previously discussed in threads about shuttles provided for the Baltimore Ravens and Washington Redskins. Thus my thought on the FTA regulation coming into play. My post is an educated guess on what Jazumah may be making phone calls about, since he is in the charter business, and has, for lack of a better way to put it, a burr on his ass for public service running where a private company can/should/was. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:21:21 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:15:15 2008. No, I don't.Then why did you bring the FTA rules up? Either they apply or they don't! And I think it's pretty clear which one it is. It's speculation, just like your speculation about the reasoning being the PABT construction. No it's not. There actually is construction, and that actually does prevent them from running the 351. I just don't know if the Lincoln Tunnel would still be an issue even if there was no construction at the PABT. Here is a copy and paste from a previous post at NJTransit.com: Bus No. 351 (Special Events Bus Service) Will Not Operate on Aug. 6, 2008 | Alternate Service from New York Penn Station ALTERNATE SERVICE FROM NEW YORK PENN STATION FOR NY/NJ RED BULLS VS. FC BARCELONA - WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 6 ONLY Due to operational limitations caused by construction at the Port Authority Bus Terminal, Bus No. 351 will not operate on Wednesday, August 6. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:26:07 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:13:58 2008. I showed it would not fit, based on the standards listed in the dealer's brochure. I also noted that other factors go into the height of the bus, and I also stated that 13' is the POSTED height limit, but it may not be the REAL height limit, which is likely 4-6 inches more. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:28:34 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:19:19 2008. It's a special event service, as previously discussed in threads about shuttles provided for the Baltimore Ravens and Washington Redskins. Thus my thought on the FTA regulation coming into play.Well maybe you are mistaken about what how "special event service" is related to the FTA ruling. The 351 is a regular route/run, provided on special event days only. Whereas the Ravens/Redskins shuttles were charter services where someone hires the buses to make the runs. Apparently no one hires NJT to run the 351. They run it of the own volition to provide a service to the public, as they do all the rest of their routes. They apparently receive no payment from the NFL or whomever to run this route. That's my understanding. If I am wrong, I welcome correction. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:29:44 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:26:07 2008. Ok, so you showed that it's close and could go either way. But the fact they they already do fit through daily is the proff that they fit. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:33:31 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:21:21 2008. The current service notice does not indicate that this is due to construction, and indicates a permenant change in the service. The notice you have posted indicates the service will not operate on one day. Whether or not the current change was in the works at that time or not, neither of us can prove.Again, I brought up the FTA rules as SPECULATION, I did not say it was, or wasn't, I said it COULD. I have no proff either way, and neither do you. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:35:53 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:28:34 2008. See, now THAT is the response that I expected to my original post. A reasonable, fact-based assumption whether or not the FTA rule applies to this situation. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 14:04:14 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:33:31 2008. The current service notice does not indicate that this is due to construction, and indicates a permenant change in the service. The notice you have posted indicates the service will not operate on one day.The construction is ongoing. AFAIK, it has not finished. So just as it prevented the 351 from running for certain high-patronage events in the past few weeks, it now prevents it from running for the even higher patronage football games. The reason it said one-day only was that it still ran for certain other low-patronage events. Whether or not the current change was in the works at that time or not, neither of us can prove. To work up this plan, believe me, this had to have been in the works for a long time. Again, I brought up the FTA rules as SPECULATION, I did not say it was, or wasn't, I said it COULD. I have no proff either way, and neither do you. Well, saying "I bet" is a little more than speculation. That's saying you actually think it is the case. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 14:08:37 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:13:32 2008. The 351 is split between Coach USA and New Jersey Transit. I highly doubt it is an FTA issue. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 14:15:57 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 14:04:14 2008. It's saying that I feel it is LIKELY the case, to the point that I'd BET on it. It's leaning toward one possibility more than the other. Again, at the time, we had no proff either way. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 14:31:09 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:19:19 2008. !!!Hank, Hank, Hank. You KNOW better than that. You're a smart guy, so don't drink the public sector Kool-Aid. "My post is an educated guess on what Jazumah may be making phone calls about, since he is in the charter business, and has, for lack of a better way to put it, a burr on his ass for public service running where a private company can/should/was." Incorrect. I do not like seeing struggling, big, sloppy transit agencies allocating resources to special event services when their CORES are hurting. WMATA has a reputation for screwing its bus riders and at least the current general manager ADMITS it and is trying to fix it. The law says that private carriers get the first shot at charters and shuttles. It has said that since 1987. Now that the various bus associations have broken their collective feet off in the FTA's rump and now the FTA wants to "contain its budget", the rules are being enforced. What an atrocity! The private sector should not have to fight taxpayer funded transit agencies for ITS OWN WORK! If the transit agencies were smart, they would make a deal with the private guys. NJT did with Coach USA on the 351 and with Academy on the 139 (although the 139 deal came after warfare). The rule does not say transit agenecies cannot do the work. It says that private carriers have first dibs on the work. That is all the regulations say, yet I suspect sports teams are setting up contracts in such a manner that they are getting high numbers and that means that the contracts are bogus, the private guys are greedy, or the public sector is bearing costs that they shouldn't. Chances are good that two of the three reasons are in play. Transit agencies should stop fighting the private sector if the laws are on our side and just make a deal. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 15:07:47 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 14:31:09 2008. I don't like the idea of paying a private company to perform a service at a subsidy rate that is ultimately higher than what it would cost the public authority to do itself.I'll also throw in that when the buses show up (if they show up), they shouldn't look like they have not been cleaned or maintained since 1985. And the interior shouldn't smell worse than the garbage dump it goes past. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 15:20:17 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 15:07:47 2008. "I don't like the idea of paying a private company to perform a service at a subsidy rate that is ultimately higher than what it would cost the public authority to do itself."I agree with that. "I'll also throw in that when the buses show up (if they show up), they shouldn't look like they have not been cleaned or maintained since 1985. And the interior shouldn't smell worse than the garbage dump it goes past." You live in the wrong borough. Come to Brooklyn. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 19 18:20:40 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 14:31:09 2008. Please find some hard proof of WMATA screwing its regular passengers in order to operate the Wolf Trap shuttle, Redskins shuttle, and special school routes.I agree with the sentiment of Joe Saitta's post (and I have a feeling I spelled that last name wrong, my apologies in advance). You sound like a broken record. We know your feelings, but let's discuss something else already. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:26:30 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 19 18:20:40 2008. I don't have to because that isn't what I said. WMATA has been known to favor its rail riders over its bus riders and Catoe admitted such in Mass Transit Magazine. Please find some hard proof that WMATA is not taking resources from its core system to fund these shuttles and school routes. From finding out what is being charged by private operators, everyone is now asking about the price differences.You can agree with whomever you like and we can even differ. The crying about FTA rules on the books since 1987 is pure rubbish. Many of the people complaining don't even understand what the rule says. We are running out of money in this region and we can never piece together where all the money went. Take the S89, add it to 2 Broadway, the Fulton Street hub, the capital program (or lack thereof), the lack of a third depot, the unwillingness of local governments to contribute money even in good times, borrowing large sums of money to move capital expenses into existing subsidy streams, and you think the subject is changeable? Only if you don't live in the NY Metropolitan area. For the rest of you, THIS IS THE SUBJECT. I'm sorry, guys, but the reality is that a transit crisis is not an overnight process, but we are in one now. Of course, I only know what one looks like because the beancounters are turning white as sheets and they can't hide it anymore. NJT is the only operator in this region prepared to survive more or less the same because they ARE BEING HONEST ABOUT THEIR MONEY. It is clear that the 351 was a drain and they have fixed it by cutting their bus requirement by 50+%. Is everyone else going to wake up now and do the math or are we going to keep pretending that if we didn't put it in the farebox, we didn't spend it? |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 19:31:00 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:26:30 2008. Are you sure NJT's being honest about its money? Explain the recent and continuing rail service cuts by NJT. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:42:51 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 19:31:00 2008. Simple.NJT is making small cuts to avoid massive ones and they are thinning out their losses. You haven't seen anything on the bus side yet, as they are looking for ways to keep certain lines afloat without taking them over. It isn't just the 4 either. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 19 20:12:40 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 19:26:30 2008. Now you got the meaning of Catoe's quote, and Catoe wasn't the first to say it. Resources were put into the rail system and not the buses. It has nothing to do with the FTA rules pertaining to charters. That said, the school routes are accounted for when the runs are put together, so the resources exist for those. Many school routes have been simplified, combined, or cut entirely in recent years. WMATA's best known charter operations are the Wolf Trap Shuttle and the Redskins shuttles. The Wolf Trap shuttle only requires 2 to 3 buses from what I understand. The Redskins shuttle typically ran on Sundays when plenty of buses are free to be used for that operation. For the rare Monday night game, my guess is they just operated with a low spare ratio for one afternoon, there has been nothing to suggest regular service was sacrificed for the Redskins shuttle.The burden of proof is on you for making such a claim, not on me. I've explained what actually happens. You seem to have an agenda, but I invite you to post any substantive proof that WMATA charter operations take away resources from regularly established services. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 20:20:14 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, good news for other rail riders., posted by Chipper10 on Mon Aug 18 21:39:58 2008. How is it good news? It can instead mean more crowded trains at SEC. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 20:27:52 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 19 20:12:40 2008. The 1st question is: did the Wolf Trap or the Redskins shuttles consume any subsidy?The 2nd question is: does a private carrier want to do the service? The answer to 1 is leaning towards yes based on the information on the table. If so, and the subsidy is not provided entirely by the team, then it has taken resources from the rest of the bus system. The answer to 2 is murky, because while private carriers have first dibs, some of the stadiums are trying to powerplay the private carrier. Under the FTA rules, that could leave the stadium with nothing, as the agency cannot run if a private carrier wants to provide the service. I believe that this is what is playing out with the Seahawks. |
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NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 20:40:23 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:19:19 2008. Wasn't it the FTA that caused NJ Tours to disappear? |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 19 20:53:30 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 20:27:52 2008. I believe the people paying for charters have to fully cover the costs. This type of thing doesn't come out of WMATA's pocket. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by 167T on Tue Aug 19 21:06:15 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 06:13:31 2008. The double deckers do fit through the tunnel, with probably 6-8 inches or less to spare. I was riding next to one today, pretty scarry. The PA cops throw them out of the XBL in the morning, at least the one in front of me was kicked out. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 21:08:32 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 20:20:14 2008. And some trains out of NYP have people standing in the vestibules as it is. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 21:09:06 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by 167T on Tue Aug 19 21:06:15 2008. Is there a reason they aren't allowed in the XBL? |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:38:20 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:40:01 2008. Or actually, to get people used to this service from Secaucus Junction when the rail link opens and the 351 is discontinued permanently. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:39:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 10:35:31 2008. And the TD925s do, in fact, use the tunnel. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:39:38 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Aug 19 00:08:02 2008. Uh...how? I am referring to and from Secaucus Junction, an entirely intrastate operation. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:41:14 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:38:16 2008. The PABT construction may just be a convenient excuse. I don't see the 351 ever returning to PABT. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 22:04:19 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:41:14 2008. The notice says that the 351 is dead. |
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Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Tue Aug 19 22:38:34 2008, in response to NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 20:40:23 2008. Yes and no. The NJ Tours name was killed prior to the 1987 UMTA ruling that prohibited full charter rights, but NJT continued to charter buses and run tours until that ruling. NJ Transit of course inherited the full US and Canada charter rights of Public Service/Transport of New Jersey, and simply maintained charters and tours under their ICC license. NJT ran package tours as long as 14 days, although TNJ did have tours as long as 30 days prior to the sale to the state - yep, 30 days in a TNJ Buffalo. |
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Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 22:44:49 2008, in response to Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by kcram3500 on Tue Aug 19 22:38:34 2008. Ok, thanks. When was the NJ Tours name killed? |
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Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Tue Aug 19 23:24:03 2008, in response to Re: NJ TOURS was Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 22:44:49 2008. If I remember correctly, 1984. The tour brochure that year was completely "NJ Transit". |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 23:30:37 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 21:38:20 2008. Well since they'd have no choice... |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Aug 19 23:36:08 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 21:08:32 2008. As more multi-level rail cars come in, the overcrowding and standing situation should ease. Secaucus Junction is grossly underutilized and should have more bus lines feeding it. I'd like to see several NJT routes that travel right by it on the Turnpike have drop off and pick up offered at Secaucus Jct. NJT bus passengers should be given the option and opportunity to continue their trip into New York City by rail and avoid the Lincoln Tunnel back-ups.One NJT route in particular that should offer a Secaucus Jct. transfer option is the # 319 express from Atlantic City. I have advocated this for some time now. What's being done with the # 351 makes perfect sense to me and is long overdue. And it should be permanent. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:41:29 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Aug 19 23:36:08 2008. The private sector would be howling if NJT did what I'm thinking they would be doing by having the 319 stop at SEC.. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:45:56 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:28:34 2008. However, the 351 may fit the bill of special event service that was quashed in DC and Baltimore.Now, the difference between NJT and WMATA/MTA Maryland is that unlike the TA's in Baltimore and DC, many of NJT's buses are NOT purchased with federal funds, but rather, most of NJT's (and subleased by NJT buses) are owned by foreign banks, mostly in Europe. As such, federally funded equipment is not usually used on the line. BTW, the MTA doesn't use federal funds to buy buses either. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:47:11 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 19 13:35:53 2008. However...note who owns most of the buses NJT has "purchased": banks in various areas of Europe via trust funds. As such, NJT could probably do an end run around the FTA ban. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:49:01 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:41:29 2008. How? The buses used usually on the 319 were not purchased with federal funds...but rather with state money and then sold/leased back from a Swedish bank. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:52:14 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by JAzumah on Tue Aug 19 14:31:09 2008. However, in NJT's case...it can do an end run around the ban. Most of its buses were NOT purchased with federal funds...but rather with money from European banks. IINM, the ban only covers federally funded equipment. |
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Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 23:52:34 2008, in response to Re: NJT 351 to be cut back to Secaucus Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 19 23:49:01 2008. I'm talking about NJT deciding to compete with the established Casino runs by offering casino packages via SEC/319 or ACES whenever that gets off the ground. |
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