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| (101337) | |
Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008 Today at Loloma Station I saw a 2008 New Flyer C40LFR #6606 but this bus is very nice including all of LCD lighting, Phoenix style seating and the some blue seating inside the bus.It look like that Phoenix is getting 2008 New Flyer L40LFR 6700 series numbering from 6701 through 6720. Currently First Transit have 29 1996 New Flyer D40LF operating from the West Facility. I have the feeling that Veolia Phoenix North Division transfer 29 of 35 6200 series NABI 40-LFW over to First Transit at Phoenix West Transit Facility 6211-6240 1999 NABI 40-LFW at First Transit Phoenix West Facility 6241-6245 1999 NABI 40-LFW at Veolia Phoenix North Facility All of 6701-6720 2008 New Flyer L40LFR at Veolia Phoenix North Facility |
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| (101362) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by lbt 9415 on Fri Jun 13 02:39:07 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. is OCTA 5501 still out there ??? |
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| (101373) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by GMCFishbowlsRule!!! on Fri Jun 13 05:34:53 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. You meant to say "LED lighting" correct? These are the bright bluish white dots in place of fluorescent lighting. The newest LACMTA NABI 60-BRTs from 2007 onwards have this lighting. |
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| (101390) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 11:35:15 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. They are here, finally! Frameless windows by any chance?Also, what do you mean by "Phoenix-style seating"? Do you mean this http://www.americanseating.com/productDetails.aspx?ID=0_83_trans_146 (sorry I don't remember my HTML from eighth grade) instead of this http://www.usscgroup.com/passenger/aries/aries4ma.html? I will NOT be happy if they cheapened the bus interior and replaced the comfortable USSC seating with the very uncomfortable American Seating. However, the LED lighting is very nice. I heard last year that they were going to put Transit TV but I guess they did not do that. Also, I honestly still think that the L40LFRs will be L40LFs and be very similar to the D40LFs because it helps keep interior costs down (replacing seating, etc). However, i think that the walls will be the same as the RPTA buses (that white LA-style anti-scratch covering that I like). As for the 1996 D40LFs, I believe that there are 20 or less still operating, as there are some numbers that I haven't seen (3727 is DEFINITELY history since it was a 1996 L40LF that was based at Mesa). So, a lot of 1996 D40LFs have already been removed from service, making it a one-for-one replacement of buses. I think that the L40LFs will go straight to Phoenix West (First Transit) rather than having Phoenix North send their 6200s over to Phoenix West. Also, don't forget that there is a DE40LFR (or CE40LFR) coming soon that will be numbered 6652. |
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| (101391) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 11:35:16 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. They are here, finally! Frameless windows by any chance?Also, what do you mean by "Phoenix-style seating"? Do you mean this http://www.americanseating.com/productDetails.aspx?ID=0_83_trans_146 (sorry I don't remember my HTML from eighth grade) instead of this http://www.usscgroup.com/passenger/aries/aries4ma.html? I will NOT be happy if they cheapened the bus interior and replaced the comfortable USSC seating with the very uncomfortable American Seating. However, the LED lighting is very nice. I heard last year that they were going to put Transit TV but I guess they did not do that. Also, I honestly still think that the L40LFRs will be L40LFs and be very similar to the D40LFs because it helps keep interior costs down (replacing seating, etc). However, i think that the walls will be the same as the RPTA buses (that white LA-style anti-scratch covering that I like). As for the 1996 D40LFs, I believe that there are 20 or less still operating, as there are some numbers that I haven't seen (3727 is DEFINITELY history since it was a 1996 L40LF that was based at Mesa). So, a lot of 1996 D40LFs have already been removed from service, making it a one-for-one replacement of buses. I think that the L40LFs will go straight to Phoenix West (First Transit) rather than having Phoenix North send their 6200s over to Phoenix West. Also, don't forget that there is a DE40LFR (or CE40LFR) coming soon that will be numbered 6652. |
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| (101394) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 12:00:21 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by GMCFishbowlsRule!!! on Fri Jun 13 05:34:53 2008. Yep that is correct. I am looking forward to seeing it as I like anything LED. |
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| (101396) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 12:04:03 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. All that I can say is...get your final 4000-series D40LF rides in and possibly your final Nova Bus rides as Golden Gate Transit really wants those buses back.Speaking of Golden Gate Transit, I have a feeling that their 2007 New Flyer D60LFs were taken off the Phoenix option for 20 D60LFs using the "Assignable Bus Options" method at New Flyer. Must be a way of throwing bones at GGT so they wouldn't complain about their Nova RTS-WFDs not coming back to them. Ironically, these new C40LFR buses were supposed to be Atlanta buses, even though the interior reminds me more of Los Angeles than Atlanta (unless MARTA radically changed their interior). BTW, anyone know of any TA in the United States that placed D60LFs into service in 2007-2008 (besides Phoenix)? |
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| (101399) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Fri Jun 13 12:26:28 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. So, 6606 at Loloma Station is probably on Route 72?Several buses are supposed to be displaced when the north satellite is reconstructed (not sure when that will start). I suspect some reallocations when the schedules change in December. |
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| (101402) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by Houston METRO Fan on Fri Jun 13 12:45:15 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 11:35:15 2008. "CE40LFR"There is no such model as a CE40LFR. Maybe the "numbered" model you speak of will be a DE40LFR bus? Can't wait to see any pics of the L40LFRs. |
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| (101407) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Fri Jun 13 14:46:31 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 12:04:03 2008. I've never ridden the Novas. As for the 4000 series D40LFs, I haven't ridden on one of them in at least a year. I won't be able to ride anything this weekend, unfortunately. |
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| (101408) | |
Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 14:48:38 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. So as I type this summary I am looking at brand-spanking new New Flyer C40LFR 6600. I was an idiot and forgot my camera, and my cell phone camera blows. Yes, I said 6600, meaning there either could be a 6697-6699 or they just started at 6600 this time and are going up to 6650 (6651 including the CE40LFR/DE40LFR). I have also seen 6606 in service as of today.Exterior features: 1. The rear door is now two windows behind the front door like the 2007 D40LFs and unlike the other D40LFRs/C40LFRs. This is the easiest way to tell the difference between the 2006 C40LFRs and the 2008 C40LFRs. 2. The buses appear to have a new engine and/or a new transmission. 3. They have a mechanical style runbox that is probably used when the main route sign is not operational. 4. There appears to be a small box on the roof behind the CNG tank on the roof. 5. The rear number is vertical but on the right side of the A/C unit. 6. Unfortunately, no frameless windows, which was a surprise. Interior features (this is what I saw through the rear door): 1. Transit-style seating (no headrests this time around). However, it is still the USSC Aries seating (like on Los Angeles buses), not the Phoenix-style seating (American Seating) that was reported earlier (thankfully). I thought that these were going to be semi-suburbans, but I was wrong. Seats are identical to those in the 2006 C40LFRs in other words. 2. New seating configuration since the door was moved back. W/C ramp still at the rear. 3. Windows are the same type as on the 2007 D40LFR (lighter tint). 4. LED INTERIOR LIGHTING! Different type than what was seen on the NYC Transit C40LF and what I saw on a King County Metro bus. 5. BIG change: These are the FIRST buses since 1994 to have stop request tape instead of the stop request cord! Apparently the RPTA got sick of the stop request cords getting pulled off all the time. 6. The walls are no longer that Los Angeles-style "rough" type, but rather a smooth (but not glossy) white type. No sign of Transit TV either like they were supposed to put in. Bottom line: Pretty nice, but I guess I expected too much. I expected frameless windows, headrests, those LA-style corrugated walls that are vandal-resistant, and Transit TV. However, at least they came with the LED lights. I don't like the rear door being two windows (instead of three) away from the front door as it "destandardizes" the configuration. So, what happens to the RPTA fleet? The 1994 D40LFs are going to be history soon. Get your rides in NOW because they will be gone pretty quickly. The Nova RTS buses may end up being purchased by Valley Metro and remain in the fleet until a more viable replacement arrives (possibly an over-the-road coach?). Worst of all for the local riders (but good for Glendale riders) is I have a feeling the D40LFRs are all going to be shipped off to Glendale (Valu Trans) except for possibly 6453-6456, which are transit configuration. Since there are 4 new express routes starting pretty soon, Valu Trans is going to need more buses and they are coming from the RPTA. Hence the reason why they ordered the D40LFR-maybe because Valu Trans does not have a CNG pump. Also, the 1996 D40LFs are going to disappear pretty soon when the L40LFs come in. So far I have not seen any of the L40LFs, but they will probably come in sometime between July and December, possibly in time for the December service changes. (Another possibility is that the light rail elimination of the Red Line will free more buses up to go to Phoenix West (First Transit) and the 1996 D40LFs will be replaced. Time will tell... |
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| (101409) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 14:50:50 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Fri Jun 13 14:46:31 2008. I have ridden the Novas several times. They arer pretty nice but they are obviously not built for a desert climate because the A/C is really bad.I saw some D40LFs yesterday still in service and I may see one even today. |
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| (101413) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Fri Jun 13 15:11:13 2008, in response to Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 14:48:38 2008. Exterior responses to your points:1. I guess that makes sense, the NABIs and all of the other buses that Phoenix/Valley Metro has ordered have the door in that location. The 2006/2007 C40LFRs/D40LFRs were ordered to other TA's specifications and in a hurry. We've known about this order for some time and the RPTA had more time to customize it. 2. The engines HAVE to be different on these buses as John Deere no longer makes CNG engines (the 2006 C40LFRs have the John Deere engine). I am pretty sure that these buses have the Cummins ISL G engine. Transmissions, the 2006/2007 C40LFRs/D40LFRs have ZF transmissions. The rest of the buses in the regional fleet have Allison transmissions. I'd bet that these also would have Allisons, especially since Allison makes the hybrid system for the DE40LFRs/DE40LFs. 3. That runbox will be nice. The destination signs break all too often. 6. Frameless windows won't work well in AZ. Especially not with Valley Metro. Frameless windows are more time consuming to replace and due to rocks, tagging, etc. Interior comments: 4. That LED interior lighting sounds nice. 5. I hope the RPTA driver's wont mind more mistaken bells, on the D40LFs I would fall rest my head against the wall and inadvertently set off the stop request bell. I believe that the L40LFs will be L40LFRs. Reason: they're a joint order with OCTA and RTC of Southern Nevada which both already operate LFR buses (C40LFRs with OCTA and DE40LFRs with RTC of Southern Nevada). The D40LFRs never made sense in Mesa anyways with the CNG facility there. |
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| (101415) | |
Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations (UPDATE) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 15:25:50 2008, in response to Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by transitbusfan on Thu Jun 12 22:21:43 2008. Only 3 minutes after I posted my first list of observations on the new 2008 New Flyer C40LFRs I was able to actually take a ride on one of them, 6597 (yep, they are starting from 6597 and going to 6647, with the hybrid being 6648). Here are some replacement/new observations:1. The tranny type (ZF?) is the same but the engine is different and a lot quieter than the 2006 C40LFRs. 2. The buses have that genuine "new New Flyer smell" like that on all the other Valley Metro New Flyer buses since 2004. 3. Seating configuration is interesting. The seats in the rear are in the same configuration as all the other Valley Metro New Flyer buses (8 forward-facing seats, 4 inward-facing seats, and the 5-seat bench in the rear). The low-floor section is both similar and different to that of D40LFRs 6453-6456. First of all, all of the seats in the low-floor section face inwards. In addition to that, EVERY seat bench (except for that on the passenger side between the front and rear door) is a wheelchair position, making a total of FOUR wheelchair positions. I don't remember the exact number of seats on each bench, but they all face inwards in this case. The wheelchair ramp is in the rear and the doors are driver-controlled. 4. Revision on the stop request system. Yes, it is true, there is yellow stop request tape again. However, this is ONLY on the driver's side low floor section. When I went up to the high-floor section, I noticed at first that there were neither pull cords nor tape. Why? Because the main stop request system is actually a PUSH-BUTTON system like that on new Las Vegas buses and most European buses (as the Las Vegas CAT bus yard says, "way past cool")! This will definitely take some time to get used to (even for myself) as most Phoenix riders are used to looking at the wall to find the stop request cord or tape. Instead the buttons are mounted on the vertical standee poles, and the area where there is tape lacks vertical poles. Valley Metro should have placed stickers on the walls to remind passengers to push the button to request a stop. 5. Yep, the walls are NOT corrugated, meaning that people can still scratch them up possibly (unless they are made of a harder plastic). I prefer the corrugated plastic more than anything else. 6. No sign of any Transit TV installation. |
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| (101417) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 15:41:27 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by Houston METRO Fan on Fri Jun 13 12:45:15 2008. Actually, there is at least one, and it is a conversion from a 1997 C40LF for the San Diego MTS. I don't think it is an official New Flyer designation yet because AFAIK no new ones have been produced yet:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/san-diego-launc.html |
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| (101418) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 15:43:01 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by lbt 9415 on Fri Jun 13 02:39:07 2008. Not sure. I went by the Mesa Division a few weeks ago but I did not see it. Possibly I saw its CNG tank and mistook it for a Valley Metro C40LFR. |
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| (101422) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations (UPDATE) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Fri Jun 13 16:03:52 2008, in response to Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations (UPDATE), posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 15:25:50 2008. Yup, I saw 6598 on Chandler Blvd a hour ago. |
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| (101424) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Fri Jun 13 16:19:46 2008, in response to Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 14:48:38 2008. <It says in the Valley Metro minutes: "The New Flyer 40-foot buses will be built with the Phoenix wheelchair rear-door securement configuration." I suppose this would have been a hint that the new ones were going to have the rear door like the NABIs. |
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| (101432) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 17:36:39 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Fri Jun 13 15:11:13 2008. 1. Don't forget about the Compo(st)Buses that have the door 3 windows back. The extension is on the high-floor section (3 windows instead of 2).3. I guess they ordered a mechanical runbox because they want it to be completely separate from the destination sign. When the destination sign fails, most of the time the runbox fails as well. Since Valley Metro is one of the few TAs that doesn't use runboxes to display runs (although the old Phoenix Transit used to have runboxes, the Novas have runboxes that display the route number mechanically, and all of the Tempe buses used to have one that displayed the route number, 4029 still has it but when the sign fails they fail too), I would guess that that "runbox" is there for when signs fail and so the drivers don't have to bring that little yellow card out. Today I saw that in action because 6600 does not have its destination sign programmed yet (it was blank) and so it was using the runbox with "72" displayed. Still, it kinda looks out of place on a 2008 bus since it is the same style of runbox that MUNI used to use on its 1970s and 1980s buses. 6. For frameless windows, it DEFINITELY won't work for Phoenix (remember the RTS?). The RPTA could pull it off because it seems like their buses are ridiculously clean all the time. Ironically, Oakland has it on their Van Stools and they have some significant vandalism inside (so much they ran a newspaper article about it a while back). Los Angeles wants to do it as well. Inside: Yep, I really like the interior "necklace" lighting. It is really nice although don't stare at the light that long as it is pretty bright. The drivers in Tempe were pretty excited today it seemed, possibly because of the new buses. The stop request tape is pretty high up and not above the seats (it is only on part of the bus) so I wouldn't worry about falling asleep on it. Plus, the seats there are all inward-facing. However, when a bus is crowded I would worry about pressing the button by accident. It will definitely take some getting used to by riders in the same way that the three different rear door opening systems affect riders. On that note, today on my way to work I took the 72 (2001 NABI 40-LFW CNG 6267) and there were several instances of passengers in Scottsdale who thought the bus was a Phoenix New Flyer and tried to press the rear doors open, ignoring the green "door open" buttons. Drivers better be ready to put up with passengers who don't know how to request a stop on the 2008 C40LFRs. At least the rear door opens automatically (although there are two stop request buttons in the same position as the door open buttons on the NABIs). I admit I fall victim to it too, the first time I rode a Phoenix RTS I tried to look for a button to open the rear door, not knowing that I had to push the doors open. BTW, http://www.valleymetro.org/Bus/How_To_Ride_The_Bus/index.htm mentions nothing about buttons to request stops. |
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| (101436) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jun 13 18:20:47 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 17:36:39 2008. Los Angeles wants to do it [frameless windows] as well.Our prototype NABI 65-BRT has frameless windows. I wouldn't be surprised if the new CompoBus and 42-BRT orders had them as well. |
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| (101457) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations (UPDATE) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Fri Jun 13 20:14:50 2008, in response to Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations (UPDATE), posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 15:25:50 2008. That stop request system seems similar to the one on the NYCT Orion VII HEVs. However, the Orion VIIs have both the pull cords and the buttons in the low and high floor section:   
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| (101478) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jun 13 21:58:14 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by Houston METRO Fan on Fri Jun 13 12:45:15 2008. The L40LFR should be virtually identical to the DE40(41)LFR. |
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| (101510) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 23:50:13 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jun 13 21:58:14 2008. Actually, IIRC some of the new DE40LFRs (since 2007) have a slimmed-down battery pack. I also think the LNG tank case is slightly different compared to the battery case on the DE40LFRs. However, they definitely are very similar. |
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| (101513) | |
Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way |
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Posted by Houston METRO Fan on Sat Jun 14 00:00:18 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro (Phoenix) new buses is on the way, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 23:50:13 2008. Edmonton Transit System has such a bus with the new "slimmed-down" battery pack. ABQ Ride also has such a bus. I wonder will our buses will have that. I'm talking about the ten that we haven't gotten yet for some special service that I think it's supposed to start in August---IIRC. |
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| (101526) | |
Re: Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Sat Jun 14 02:15:30 2008, in response to Valley Metro 2008 New Flyer C40LFR Observations, posted by roscoman1986 on Fri Jun 13 14:48:38 2008. Thank you let me know about seating on Valley Metro (RPTA) and Phoenix owned buses roscoman1986 |
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