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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 3 08:57:20 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 2 23:28:44 2017.

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But even your counter example is incorrect. You stated "Lowering the speed limit does not necessarily lower the average speed."

When I asked you to explain you stated when the signals are resynchronized to the lower speed, the average speed would not be lowered when the speed limit is lowered.

So if the speed limit is synchronized and the speed limit is 30 mph and assuming the road is not overloaded and you can get all (or most of) the green lights and your origin is the beginning of the street and destination is the end of the street, your average speed would be very close to 30 mph like 28 mph.
If the signals are in fact timed for 30 mph, yes. If not, no,the average speed will not be 30 mph.

Now when you lower the limit to 25 mph, cars have to travel a little slower so you decrease capacity and fewer cars can get through on each signal so the traffic has to move slower given volume stays the same.
You cannot assume volume will remain the same, nor can you assume that capacity will go down.

(You would probably miss an additional light.)
Baseless assumption.

Your average speed is now reduced from about 28 mph to about 21 mph.
Fabricated numbers with no basis in reality.

THEREFORE EVEN UNDER THOSE OPTIMAL CONDITIONS, YOUR AVERAGE SPEED IS STILL LOWER WHEN YOU LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT.
This is not a universal truth, as I have repeatedly been saying.

The only situations where lowering the speed limit does not effect the average speed is (1) if there is so much traffic that you cannot travel at the speed limit anyway and (2) no one is abiding by the new lower speed limit anyway.
Or if, as I have been saying all along, road conditions make the higher speed limit unattainable for some reason.

It is obvious that those two situations were taken out of the equation from the beginning and please don't tell me they weren't even if I didn't specifically mention it.
Maybe not the beginning, but early enough that they are certainly not what I am referring to. But yes, before you mentioned them, both are certainly perfect valid counterexamples for why lowering speed limits does not necessarily lower average speed.

IT WAS ASSUMED, just like No stopping on highways does not mean you should hit the car in front of you when it comes to a stop on the highway because of traffic.
Which brings up another good example of why the universal statement is wrong. If higher speeds result in a far greater number of accidents resulting in gridlock, average speed could certainly go up with a lower speed limit.

So discounting those two possibilities, there are no circumstances where lowering the speed limit doesn't lower the average speed. EVEN THE EXAMPLE YOU CITED.
One of those two possibilities is an example of why, but isnt the general reason why the statement is false. Lowering the speed limit will not reduce the average speed, if the old limit was unattainable for any reason. That could be traffic, signals, road condition, road layout, etc. Anything whatsoever.

Will you admit you are wrong now?
Of course not.

Of course not. I wouldn't expect you to.
Why would I? I don't lie.

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